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Posted: 12/20/2002 5:35:09 AM EDT
I keep reading these post about what people are going to buy when/if the ban sunsets. But what about your post-ban upper. Are you going to try to convert it or sell it? My thinking is these post-ban uppers will be dirt cheap in the Equipment Exchange section. So which one will you do?
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 5:44:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 5:44:53 AM EDT by Princeton]
I'm sure I'll outfit a few of my post ban ARs with evil features but I wouldn't necessarily be selling off any rifles or barrels because they lack a flash suppressor or bayonet lug. Not every AR needs a flash suppressor. If the rifle will only be seeing duty as a range gun I doubt a flash suppressor will make any difference. If you have an AR15 that shoots well without a flash suppressor why take a chance of ruining a good shooter just to add an evil feature. Shoot the rifle and when it needs a new barrel then maybe you can add the evil features.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 6:13:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 6:14:48 AM EDT by Semanon13]
I agree with Princeton. I'm not going to throw any stuff away. My post-ban upper will be great for the range. It may have a little more muzzle flash but I am able to use the flash to blind my opponent. I have two AR-15's with bayonet lugs. I'll just put one of those uppers on if I need to stab anyone. The post-ban stuff will be good repair parts for the new EVIL stuff, if needed.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 7:43:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 7:44:16 AM EDT by Another-Bill]
Good point, there are few "evil features" that I'd fool with. I already have a Colt Govt. Carbine Pre-Ban, the rest are post-ban and I like them just as they are. The Bushy AK-Shorty for IPSC has a pretty good comp on it and the Compass Lake DCM doesn't need a flash hidder. I would not fool with any of them. As for the collapisble stock, I have it on the 6520 and don't want it on the other rifles, and I have never needed a bayonet on any rifle. I'd rather use a pistol. Bill
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 7:44:43 AM EDT
Unless I'm mistaken, you could probably send your upper back to the manufacturer for them to attach a flash hider or thread the barrel. Anybody know this for certain?
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 7:59:47 AM EDT
All barrels will be fitted with FH's. (even my bolts have FH's now)
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 8:04:10 AM EDT
I will be adding a few collapsible stocks to my post-bans.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 8:07:37 AM EDT
Other than my .458 SOCOM all of my AR's will have collapseable stocks. I dont really care too much for the flash suppressors, but I would love to have silencers on a few and being able to thread the bbls will make that work!! [beer]
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 9:06:03 AM EDT
I will be doing nothing to my postban since it is set up how I like with no evil features and I already have a preban.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 9:09:15 AM EDT
A flash hinder and real tele stock would be all I'd be interested in, but not to point of swapping parts on the AR's I've already got as long as everything was working ok. I'd probably just get another a post-post ban AR with all the evil already on it. I figure it never hurts to have another AR. [:D] On a related note, what do think will happen to the value of preban rifles, uppers, lowers, etc. if the ban is lifted?
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 9:28:08 AM EDT
In an ideal world: There will be a strong collectors market in post-ban items, as they were only made for a short period of time. The prices on true factory letter postban uppers will soar. People will have to explain to newbies what a “pressed on fake suppressor” and “pinned fixed collapsible stock” are. People will be posting questions about how to make sure they are getting a true collectible postban fixed collapsible stock, and not an ebay ripoff where the seller has pinned a post postban stock.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 10:23:17 AM EDT
add telestocks, and convert my FAL to a para style
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 10:36:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By prego: People will be posting questions about how to make sure they are getting a true collectible postban fixed collapsible stock, and not an ebay ripoff where the seller has pinned a post postban stock.
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LOL! [:D]
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 11:05:20 AM EDT
Everything will become an AW, even if it means serious pimp action on some of them (BTW, how do you make a bolt-gun an AW?).
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 11:14:01 AM EDT
bolts already can be pimped out without restriction, but most hunters have decent taste. Telescoping shoulder stocks, flash hiders or silencers, detachable hicap magazines, etc.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:01:55 PM EDT
I will be taking a flight on my F115 flying donkey yelling yeehaa, F**K the liberals!!! J/K, I suppose i'll build another M4 with all the evil thingy's. FREE
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:25:11 PM EDT
Kurt will be working 20 hours a day chopping off muzzle brakes and threading barrels. Non-collapsable stocks will still be used for 20" guns. Bayo lugs are useless on a 16" anyway.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 7:00:38 PM EDT
I think I'll thread all of my barrels but one or two, but won't bother with the stocks or lugs.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 9:47:04 PM EDT
I will not bother doing anything to the post bans except feed them even more often. Dan
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 9:54:22 PM EDT
I'll send all my non-collapsing stocks and muzzle brakes to Sarah Brady.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 10:43:41 PM EDT
What postban stuff?
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 1:08:50 AM EDT
If the ban sunsets, a para kit for my FALs, and a couple sidefolders for my AK's. If the ban sunsets, it won't have any effect on the 16" min. barrel length requirement. Anything 16" or more can sport threads. M-4's and the like will still have to have something permanent on the end to add up to 16". The market for "real" M4 barrels will likely take a serious hit.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 1:58:38 AM EDT
ummm, better have all the right stuff for silencers...Class 3....If its illegal,(no paperwork) your'e lookin at 15 years minimum in the fed pen. My father went and had all that done on a .243. Took alot of time and money just to get through the book work of it, and now he can't find subsonic loads for it!! Even so, do it right, They look at that with the same eyes as fully automatic.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 2:49:28 AM EDT
I'm happy with my post ban rifle so I probably won't do anything to it. I might get another shorty with some of the "evil" features. I don't think the prices for most post ban equipment will fall (or rise) with one exception. High capacity magazine prices will probably fall on the order of 50% from current prices. I can't wait!
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 5:55:44 AM EDT
I'll shoot mine...though, I might consider replacing the silly muzzle brakes with true flash supressors.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 6:49:04 AM EDT
The sale of tele-stocks will triple! I going to help out too.[:D]
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 7:08:30 AM EDT
I think I'm going to get the collapsible stock and an assortment of flash hiders before the date. I'm not sure what flash hider I want on my post-ban RRA M4A2, so I'll have one of each. May be change them every week or so. Everyone will think I have a lot more AR-15's than I really do. Only kidding. I don't think the prices on that kind of stuff will go lower. May go higher. I want to have the stock and flash hiders so I can be the first on the block to switch over. It the law doesn't Sunset, I can always use the parts on a pre-ban.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 8:34:14 AM EDT
I wonder if manufacurers will still offer 'post-ban' style guns a super-economy level ultra-cheap guns
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 9:00:03 AM EDT
[center][i]If the law sunsets?[/i][/center] Pre and post-post ban ARs will be selling for around $1K , post ban ARs will be at a premium fetching $2K-$3K , (LEO guns will skyrocket in price like the FAMAS), Beta Mags will take a dive to about $100 each and those that have been hoarding them for future profit will be contemplating sewercide , black AUGs will be selling for $2500 and the USR will be bringing in close to $5000. Around xmas you will see dealers standing next to the salvation army guy also ringing a bell with a kettle full of hi-cap pre-ban mags in front of them. [center]oh wait...did I drift off topic?,I'm sorry...[/center] FOR SALE---POST BAN BULGARIAN AK47---$4,500.00
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 9:24:45 AM EDT
I would definitely switch out the fake collapsable stocks with the real ones. The rest of it, I don't really care about. Of course that wouldn't stop me from buying a few post-post-ban rifles or uppers. But, the post ban stuff I have now suits my purposes fine as is.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 9:44:54 AM EDT
Just like everyone else... Postban carbines will be sent out for barrel threading and FH installation. Carbines will all get real telestocks as well. 20" rifles will all be sent out for barrel threading and I will go ahead and lighten the HBARs while I am at it. Varmint bull barrel rifles will be left alone. Nothing in the AWB affects them for me. I dont give two craps for bayo lugs. Prices wont change a bit, except for some gouging on preban barrels and assemblies, and telestocks... just related to supply and demand. It will level out over time. Kurt will be overloaded. If it looks like it truly will sunset, I'll be shipping mine real early, and just have him sit on em till the drop dead date, so I can get mine back!
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 10:05:12 AM EDT
FALARAK I always thaught that the bayo lug was necessary for MPs to heard drunk sailors back onto their boat.....
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 11:59:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2002 12:07:39 PM EDT by Ronnies111]
[B]The ban is never going to Sunset, I wish it would but it will never happen. Our government will never admit they passed a law that didn't help anything and by it sun-setting that's exactly what they would have to admit. Never ever going to happen ! I'm very happy with the postban weapons it's a lot better than a total ban which is what they will have eventually, not in our lifetime hopefully but it's coming. Enjoy what you have, while you can..legally[/B]
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 12:37:06 PM EDT
Or, instead of enjoying what you have, YOU FIGHT TO REGAIN WHAT YOU HAVE LOST! Yeah, I know writing to your reps. might not do much but it is better than wishing/hoping/complaining/crying/etc...sites like this help organize AR and "AW" folks. You have to hope for the best with the AW sunset, guys!
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 1:06:46 PM EDT
i will buy as many hi cap mags for my ruger 10-22 as i can ... as these mags are the most expensive i have ever seen other than the Beta mags which i will buy me a couple of as well ... my post ban RRA will have its barrel turned for a flash suppressor ... the full stock will stay as i have a collapsable on my preban m4gery and i dont like the noise it makes .. i will get a folding stock for my romanian sar1 ak47 .. and thats it .. ak mags .. ar mags .. all cheap .. but sure as $&it .. ill be buying about 100 ramline 50 rd'ers as soon as i can .. NO QUESTION .. cause the 10/22 is one of the funnest guns i have hands down .. its accurate .. reliable .. ammo is dirt cheap .. and fairly light .. and with 2 ramline 50 rd'ers clamped together .. it gives me 100 rds ... best investment ill be making .. oh .. and buying another 10-22 ... :)
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 2:37:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ronnies111: [B]The ban is never going to Sunset, I wish it would but it will never happen. Our government will never admit they passed a law that didn't help anything and by it sun-setting that's exactly what they would have to admit. Never ever going to happen ! [/B]
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You are right. This Constitutional Amendment banning alcohol and the 55 mile an hour speed limit are killing me!
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 4:39:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2002 5:58:40 PM EDT by Ronnies111]
I know what you saying & I would like it to sunset also but do you really think with all the shootings like in Maryland, there going to let it drop ? We know shootings would happen no matter what the outcome is but the government will not see it that way. Fighting for our rights is what Americas freedom is based on, but you can't fight the government any more. The decisions have been made before we get to fight for it. They let us vote, have community discussions, debates and polls but the outcome is predetermined. This doesn't mean I think people shouldn't try, it's just my opinion it will not help or change things. I don't think the alcohol & speed limit thing is in the same ballpark as guns as far as the government are concerned, even though alcohol kills more in a year than guns do in 10 years. Hey but if I'm wrong & we'll know soon you can say I told you so. I'm now taking bets. I would love to see the ban end but again do you really believe they are going to make gun laws better for the public or easier to purchase what they call more dangerous weapons ? I do hope for the best but you can't hide from reality. [B] I am very pro guns, I love guns but I also know how our govermnent thinks, they promise a lot but deliver very little.[/B]
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 7:48:14 PM EDT
Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie... I know you mean well but your thinking on this subject is flawed. As GreenMountainPatriot said, fight for what you have lost. Don't give in or they have already won. Now, the 1994 ban was programmed with a "sunset" clause, on purpose Ronnie. This means they knew they (our Republican friends) would want to review the matter in ten years when things were different, and things are different. So, all Congress has to do is nothing. If the enemy tries to pass something new, they will have an entirely different fight on their hands than what was brought in '94. The Republican government, the NRA, [url]www.awbansunset.com[/url], and of course all of us, will be ready to stave off their ridiculous cosmetic bans. If we don't fight this Ronnie, if we just lay down, say goodbye to all of your semi-automatic weapons, because any new ban we tolerate will include them. Take a look at your northern and southern borders Ronnie... everywhere you look guns are either illegal or register-permitted, so don't roll over as those folks did. FIGHT. It's in the Constitution... FIGHT!!!
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 10:36:16 PM EDT
NOTHING! Damn state democraps!
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 5:15:26 AM EDT
There are a number of states where it was illegal to carry concealed ten years ago, which now have "shall issue" CCW permits. Not only can we get constitutional amendments (alcohol) and federal restrictions (55 mph) relieved, but we CAN get gun rights back, even if only incremently. Single most important thing to do is let the NRA know the AW ban sunset is vital to the economic well being of the NRA. They have a lot of power, but do not always use it wisely. They forget the 2nd is not about duck hunting. We need to figure out a united way to inform them (people donating the amount of a lifetime membership into an escrow account that automatically vests in the NRA if the ban sunsets without replacement, but reverts to the individual donators if not?)
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 5:59:45 AM EDT
I'm not trying to be a party pooper but I wouldn't bank on the ban getting lifted. I will do what I can to see it happen but won't count on it. I haven't seen anything in the last 30 years except carry permits that would leave me to believe so. By the way, that is States doing that and I totally expect the fed to stick their nose in one day. Democrats introduce the bills and Republicans pass them and then blame the Democrats or the other way around but it's still their damn signature on the bill. The damn liberal pinkos are just more organized than us and our brother hunters can't see the future of their rights for they don't understand why we do what we do. Just look at their faces when you pull your AR out at the range the week before deer season. The two worse places in the US for gangs and gang related crimes, CA & NYC, have the strongest gun laws. We as a society continue to regulate the law biding while the lawless gain the upper edge. The people actually believe the criminal obeys the law and how stupid can that be. If we could regulate morality then there would be no drug problem in the US. Instead of realizing our folly, we continue to pass more stringent laws for laws are what politicians think they were hired for. I once had a guy tell me, "Oh, you shouldn't vote for that guy. He won't get a damn thing passed." My reply was "and?". The post ban issue was a victory for the AR. I don't need a flash suppressor nor a bayonet lug but I do feel I need my AR. Hold the mags to 10 rounds is an indication of the future and I'm sorry to say so is CA's can't remove the mag for I'm sure some version of this will hit the books sooner than you think. I've tried to reason with liberals but for some unknown damn reason they think a hunk of metal has a mind. They think guns jump into criminals hands and shout shoot me at someone man. They believe a hunk of metal is evil and are totally oblivious of the fact that man has been killing man since Cain and Able. Wonder what gun he used? The first thing I heard on CNN after the DC snipers were caught. "Thank God, we got that rifle off the streets."
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 6:48:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: I'm not trying to be a party pooper but I wouldn't bank on the ban getting lifted. I will do what I can to see it happen but won't count on it.
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Tom (and others), Pardon me if you already know this, but I just want to make sure this is very clear. Nothing has to happen for the ban to expire... in September 2004, if no replacement ban is passed, the 1994 ban goes away. Now, ordinarily, I would tend to agree with you and the other naysayers... getting Congress to "admit" that a law they passed was worthless by having them repeal it would be an uphill battle. We have a solidly pro-gun House, perhaps a very slim pro-gun lead in the Senate (though I'm not sure of that yet), and a reasonably pro-gun President. It would be possible to push a repeal through, but it would certainly be an uphill battle. Now, put yourself in the shoes of an anti-gun crusader. Look at the situation... while the Senate MIGHT pass a renewal (if the Republicans would even allow it to come up), [b]the House almost certainly will not. [/b] And, since we don't have a gun-hating President [b]demanding[/b] that congress pass a renewal, that makes it very likely that any feeble attempts to introduce a renewal will simply get bottled up indefinitely in some committee. In other words, the antis have MUCH more to worry about than we do. That doesn't mean we can relax, thinking it's a done deal... we need to keep the pressure on. We need to make sure our pro-gun Reps and Senators know that we appreciate their stance and their opposition to the ban, and will remember it on the next election. Likewise, we need to be sure that moderately anti-gun Reps and Senators know how serious of an issue this is to us... I doubt you'll change their minds on their vote on a ban renewal, but you might make them think twice about seriously pushing for it to come up. Bottom line... things are looking very good for us. This morning I heard the G.M. for the New Orleans Aints (errr... Saints) on the radio. He was giving a pep talk, trying to cheer fans up after the devastating loss yesterday that probably put us out of the playoffs. Trying to look on the bright side, he and the host started rattling off various scenarios that could result in a playoff spot (if we win next weekend, and these two teams both lose, etc, etc.). I get the feeling that many gun owners feel this same way when we hear talk of the ban sunsetting. They'd like the ban to go away, and they know it's not impossible, but they think it is VERY unlikely. I'm here to say that nothing could be further from the truth. Come join us at [url]www.awbansunset.com[/url]. Take a look at our Scoreboard at [url]www.awbansunset.com/scoreboard.html[/url] to get an estimate on how the House would likely handle a renewal (Senate version is in the works). Then report back here and let us know if your feelings have changed. [:)] --Mike
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 7:39:56 AM EDT
"alcohol and speed limit don't count, they're not about guns" "ccw doesn't count, that's states, not the feds." You guys have already surrendered.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 8:15:23 AM EDT
The last thing the bad guy should see is the flash from the barrel of your non-flash supressed AR. Why would you trade or modify a weapon with which your comfortable and familiar with.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 8:26:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2002 8:28:27 AM EDT by Big-Bore]
Sell? Never SELL!! But I will be adding an upper or two, and maybe even a CAR stock. But NEVER sell! Oh, and by the way, the ban WILL sunset. How do I know? Because I have a butt-load of money invested in hi-cap magazines and if my "investments" run true to form, they will become worthless when "the Ban" sunsets. Oh yes, it will sunset if for no other reason to turn my $15 and $20 mags into $3 mags!
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 8:36:51 AM EDT
I'll be converting all my post-ban rifles to pre-ban configuration as soon as the ban is done. It's not that I NEED those features, but I WANT them, and partly that's because I don't like any stinking government tell me that I can't have certain features on my rifle. CJ
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 12:21:54 PM EDT
I think that President Bush may be a big help to gun owners. I also think the terrorist attacks may have helped us out also because it showed the vulnerability of americans and the need for an armed civilian. The problem..... those 2 chickenshit mentalcase asses who decided to play sniper with innocent unarmed civilians. I would love to get my hands around those losers' throats. You know that they are going to be a big kick in the ass for the potential of the sunset. They will be mentioned in every argument. I told a few guys that something would happen close to the sunset to ruin our chances. a few months later...BAM.. "look how dangerous a bushmaster is" ... "wow, why would a civilian need such a military weapon".... "such an accurate rifle for civilian sniper use" At this point I am not s concerned with the sunset as I am with the fact that they could make it worse. Maybe they will ban Pre-bans, maybe we will all have to send our prized green label colts out to be modified with welded muzzle brakes, chopped off bayo lugs and blocked sears. Anyway, I hope for the best for all our sakes but dont sell that pre-ban yet because it may be the last one you ever buy.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 9:10:09 PM EDT
I really hate too be a killjoy especially on this subject, but the aw ban is'nt going too sunset...
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 9:46:03 PM EDT
Seeing as you only have four posts here, I am going to assume that you're a newbie, so I'll be gentle. (We've been over this road many times.) Search for the word 'sunset' with the search function, and you will find the topics! YES, the AW ban will sunset. It's written right into the ban itself. There is no avoiding this. What matters is, will the ban be replaced with similar legislation? The answer: In this political climate, an emphatic NO. Look at the political situation: The original ban passed in '94 by ONE vote in the House, under an anti-gun President. Now, the House is DEFINITELY more pro-gun than it was in 1994. A new ban would have damned near a snowball's chance of making it through the House, and if it doesn't make it through the House, it's a dead issue. That also applies if any bill doesn't make it through the Senate. The way our system works, a bill has to pass each house of Congress individually and separately in order to become law. Not only do the Republicans have a clear majority in both houses, but our percentage of pro-2nd-amendment-rights congressmen is higher than it's been in several decades. Even the Democrats have acknowledged that gun control is a loser's issue. If you doubt that, ask Kathleen Kennedy-Townsend, who got her ass handed to her a few months ago, and she wanted more gun control and made an issue out of it during the campaign. There is little reason to think that the ban will be replaced, and yet there are many reasons to think that it won't be. Of course, none of this is set in stone. It DOES require that enough of us apply and continue to apply pressure to our elected officials, telling them that we don't want the useless ban extended or replaced for any reason, and we'll keep the congressman's actions in mind the next time he comes up for re-election. The ban will expire and it will not be replaced. CJ
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 6:44:29 AM EDT
I hate to say this but I agree with the nay-sayers. Yes, the AW ban will sunset as designed, but I truly believe that it will be replaced with something else. That something else is NOT going to lighten up on our gun rights as much as we would like it to. And, I don't think that the we can trust ANY politician. Just look what is going on with our border/immigration policy. George only wants to garner vote in any way he can and there are too many damn liberals out there. We may have the numbers but our voices aren't strong enough, yet. Every idiot teen who takes his revenge with a gun, DC sniper type event, etc. adds another nail to the coffin. You would think that just looking at Canada, Australia and England with their attempts at solving gun crime with gun control, would enlighten the masses in this country. In my state the fools elected Hillary and then we also have Upchuck Schumer, both of whom are big gun control advocates. For some assinine reason, people still pay attention and fawn all over these two idiots. Enough ranting. I hope the majority of you are right about the future of gun control and our future.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 8:32:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: What matters is, will the ban be replaced with similar legislation? The answer: In this political climate, an emphatic NO. Look at the political situation: The original ban passed in '94 by ONE vote in the House, under an anti-gun President
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And, let's not forget... we also have 10 years worth of data that proves a ban on "assault weapons" does nothing to reduce crime. If we had a tremendous amount of evidence that indicated the ban DID have a significant effect on reducing crime, we'd have a more difficult task ahead of us. Instead, we have a D.O.J. study released in 1999 that, among other things, says something along the lines of "at BEST, only a very modest improvement in crime rates could have been expected, given the rarity of these types of firearms being used in crime." --Mike
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