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Posted: 11/27/2002 7:37:19 AM EDT
Are there any? I am very pleased with my Bushy 20 inch. BUT, the forward weight is not great. I know Kurt can turn it down to the A2 profile, or even just down under the hand guards, to get rid of the extra weight. Its cheap and I think i might do it. Any reason not to do it?

Jeff D.
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 7:40:01 AM EDT
No reason not to do it - Heck I did it. BTW for an HBAR to A2 he only turns down under the handguards.
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 10:04:52 AM EDT
No. Just go for it. I love the Govt Profile barrels. The HBARs are an easy way for companies to cut costs on manufacturing. MaX
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 1:07:29 PM EDT
Are there any accuracy problems caused by stressing your barrel during the trimming process? Any induced stress will become more apparent as the barrel heats up leading to a greater lack of consistancy between a cold bore and a warm bore.
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 2:02:29 PM EDT
Only reason I can think of is because you have an A2 profile already and you like carrying around the HB as part of your weight training program [:)]
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 3:37:32 PM EDT
I love my HBAR, the weight makes it feel like a real rifle and IMO, aids in stability in offhand shooting. Better thermal stability over more shots is also a +. Why spend money to gain only a weight reduction but to lose on a couple other areas. SorryOciffer
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 6:15:14 PM EDT
How about this one? You dont have any money to do it. GG
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 9:46:23 PM EDT
This is great. I've just tonight thought about this myself. This thread will be perfect to get this figured out. So what's the Pro's of a HBAR over an A2? I thought the main reason behind HBAR was to handle the higher temps in hot weather and fully auto fire. For our civilian applications, is there a con to turning down the barrel to A2 weight?
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 5:53:40 AM EDT
Only the possibility of warping the barrel during the process. Barrel fluting is the same way. I wouldn't recommend it. Better to sell the upper you have and get another. Shorter heavier barrels are far more accurate than long skinny barrels.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 9:09:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DOA: Only the possibility of warping the barrel during the process. Barrel fluting is the same way. I wouldn't recommend it. Better to sell the upper you have and get another. Shorter heavier barrels are far more accurate than long skinny barrels.
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Could you please explain further? So this processes should be avoided due to possibility of gunsmith error?
Shorter heavier barrels are far more accurate than long skinny barrels.
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How do you figure? Do you mean they don't loose their "structure" quicker under high heat situations? While in theory I beleive you are correct, it is a mute point, I don't see a civilian reaching that threashold.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 9:40:48 AM EDT
A heavier barrel may be more accurate than a thinner barrel due to flex and harmonics, but the plain ole truth is that 99.99% of the people will never be able to shoot well enough to ever see a difference. Throw iron sights into the picture, and you may never see a difference. Typical 100 yard or less shooting and it isn't going to matter. Does 1/2" @ 100 yards matter that much to you when compared to weight savings? If it does, then leave things as they are. Most people will benefit much more from a weapon that is easier to carry, and quicker to point in on target. Thinner = quicker to heat up 3 mags rapid fire through my M4 barrel gets me a VERY hot barrel. The same thing through my fatboy gets me a warm barrel.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 9:47:10 AM EDT
turn it down till it looks like a MacDonalds soda straw, you idiot!
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 9:54:41 AM EDT
Please see these links for info on barrel fluting: http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh/fluting.html http://www.probed2000.com/flute.htm http://www.fulton-armory.com/fluting.htm Please draw your own conclusions, but for me, I wouldn't bother.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 10:17:33 AM EDT
Thanks for the feedback, I'll get to reading here soon. Crap I have to do the Thanksgiving thing soon.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 10:37:12 AM EDT
I think DOA has misread my post. I am talking about turning the HBAR down to a smaller diameter like the military profile barrels. This results in a circular cross section but one of less than the almost 1 inch that the civilian HBARs have. The thing I have understood about HBARs is that they are more of a cost issue for civy weapons as it saves the manufacturer money to skip a few machining steps. What DOA is pointing to is [b]fluting[/b]. this is a process of cutting grooves the length of the barrel and gives you a star-ish barrel cross section when done. That is NOT what I am looking to do. The links provided discuss fluting not barrel profile. On the issue of gunsmith mistakes and possible barrel warping I don't see this as a problem so long as you use a competent 'smith who can set up a metal lathe and use cutting oil. I understand the concern, but don't see it as a barrier. I appreciate all the comments. I'm gonna buy a second upper and get it profiled. Jeff
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 11:04:35 AM EDT
Yes turning and fluting are 2 different ideas with similar results. Turning is taking the dia. of a barrel, and making it smaller, simple as that. HBAR down to A2 profile. You can do a combination of both if you chose. Kurt does turning and fluting UNDER the handguards only if you like. Doing this under the handguards makes me think that it's a middle ground between both extremes.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 5:52:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2002 5:53:27 PM EDT by DOA]
I posted the info on fluting as it has the same effects of the barrel as turning down a barrel. My question is, though, what cost are you looking at, and is their a big diff in weight savings? Couldn't you just buy another barrel with the diameter you seek? I'd be real curious what Kurt says about this, since he does this for a living.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 6:45:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2002 6:58:24 PM EDT by MillerSHO]
This thread has some answers. [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=44&t=138474&w=searchPop[/url] And kurts website with prices is here. [url]http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/catalog/item/29585/1132.htm[/url] This is what it says.
LW Konversions KKF also offers 'Lightweight' conversions on your HBars. Barrel turning to lighten the weight. Price includes repark. 'M4gery' profiling on 16" barrels-$75. 'LW' conv. on Dissipators or Carbines-$55. A2 Gov't from HBar-$50. 'LW' (SP1) conversion on 20"-$55. Fluting under the HG's-$50. Full-length Fluting-$75. Turning & Fluting under the HG's-$85. KKF can also take your 20" barrel to 16+" by cutting, crowning, and threading of your barrel (along with gas port work), or the KKF 'KurtzGewher TacPac' 16+" w/KKF A2 TacBrake by cuttimg, crowning, & threading of your barrel with the addition of a permanently attached KKF A2 TacBrake (along with gas port work for enhanced reliabilty & function).Package price: $125.
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I could buy another upper to do this to, but I'd be in a full upper $500 PLUS the work he has to do. I plan on buying another AR in the next year a 16" HBAR. I'll have that as my "stock" weapon. My 20"HBAR bushy has plans though I think. I want the Mini-y off, and while I'm there I might as well do the following. Buy FIRSH handguards, buy new gas block with flip down front sight, send it to kurt, have him install handguards, gasblock/front sight, and install A2 or A3 tacbrake to get that silly mini-y off. And then this is where this thread fits in, the turning and/or fluting of the barrel while kurts there. And while kurt has is doing the work, buy a tuned RRA NM trigger and install it when it comes back from kurt. I mean, I'm already there I might as well do it. [rolleyes] What you guys think? Edited to say: Total work and parts if ALL of this is done. $600 New Upper plus all this work: $1100
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 7:13:52 PM EDT
If you are looking for light get a light 16" barrel. All my AR's have 16" barrels, one of them is a DPMS Panther Bull (big fat sucker) that I have set up for target/varmints. The rest are light barrels and carry real easy! Got a Cav Arms with M4 barrel coming soon and want to put optics on it. Trying to decide how I can afford an ACOG......
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 7:50:50 PM EDT
If you are looking for light get a light 16" barrel. All my AR's have 16" barrels, one of them is a DPMS Panther Bull (big fat sucker) that I have set up for target/varmints. The rest are light barrels and carry real easy! Got a Cav Arms with M4 barrel coming soon and want to put optics on it. Trying to decide how I can afford an ACOG......
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