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Posted: 11/16/2002 12:08:13 PM EDT
I have a Colt 6601 and would like to get a little more accuracy out of it. So far, I've installed a free floating handguard and installed the Colt match trigger assy. It currently shoots 1-1.5 MOA. Can I do anything else with the current setup or should I bolt on a different upper assy with a match barrel already installed? What can I do that would get me the most bang for my buck to consistently get sub MOA groups? Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/16/2002 2:08:13 PM EDT
Ammo is your #1 way to get sub MOA groups. what ammo are you using now? Federal Gold Match is very popular. Black Hills is also excellent and is a little cheaper. If you are shooting milspec ammo and are getting those 1-1.5 MOA groups you are doing GREAT!
Link Posted: 11/16/2002 2:13:25 PM EDT
What distance? Practice Practice Practice!
Link Posted: 11/16/2002 3:00:22 PM EDT


Trigger, trigger, trigger, then handload
Link Posted: 11/16/2002 3:04:30 PM EDT
Hmmm, if you want more accuracy...learn to shoot better :-)
Link Posted: 11/16/2002 9:12:43 PM EDT
To answer some of your replies,

I've been using Winchester and Hornady varmint ammo and Remington hunting ammo to get the 1 to 1.5 MOA groups at 100 yards. Milspec ammo usually nets about 2 MOA at 100 yards. I haven't tried the Federal Match or Black Hills yet.

I live in an apartment so I don't have room or the time to reload. I would like to use commercial ammo only.

I don't get out to practice as often as I like.

I like to think I'm a pretty good shot, I'm not a benchrest specialist, but there's always room for improvement.

So in summary, you guys are telling me that I should be able to consistently shoot sub MOA if I use the right ammo, practice a lot, learn better trigger control and to shoot better with the setup I already have?

You don't have any other tips for mechanical accurizing of the rifle and that it's all in the shooter and the ammo? I'm hoping to get consistent 0.75-1.0 MOA with an occasional 0.50 MOA group at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 11/16/2002 9:32:51 PM EDT
You need to get into some match ammo and that's all there is to it. Assuming Colt didn't screw up and make a bad barrel for that rifle, that is. (Unlikely.)


WITHOUT a free floating handguard (just standard A2 guards) or any other accurizing tricks at all, my Bushmaster with the National Match model barrel shoots very close to 0.5 MOA routinely, using handloaded match grade ammo. (53 gr. Sierra Match Kings (part no. 1400) over 23.0 grains of Hodgdon H322 with a Winchester WSR primer) My best single group yet was a ten shot group that measured 3/8ths of an inch across. I can't hold the rifle any better than that even with the sandbags, so I honestly don't know just how tight this load is capable of grouping!

No tricks involved. Just a good barrel, good ammo, a 4X scope and a couple of sand bags.

With most factory ammo, you can't expect better than what you are getting now. You've got to start using match grade stuff to get sub MOA groups with any regularity. As factory match ammo is expensive, it's worth it to load your own from premium components. That'll let you load up premium ammo for the price of the cheap stuff. (200 bucks for 1000 rounds of my pet sub-MOA handload) Even a pretty good reloading setup can pay for itself in 1000 rounds of match grade ammo.

CJ

Link Posted: 11/16/2002 10:08:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arizcowboy:
So in summary, you guys are telling me that I should be able to consistently shoot sub MOA if I use the right ammo, practice a lot, learn better trigger control and to shoot better with the setup I already have?




That seems to sum it up perfectly, yes.
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 2:23:20 AM EDT

to consistently get sub MOA groups


There's your key. "consistantly". Assuming you have a gun that is capable, you and your ammo need to be consisant. I've found Federal Match ammo to be the most consistant of the commerical loaded stuff. It's going to cost you though. It would be to your benefit to get a small reloading set up and roll your own. You dont need much room or equipment. Besides a capable gun, its the biggest move towards the groups you want. Read up on benchrest loading tecniques too. Just a couple of little things can make a big difference. Since your the "weakest link" in the equation, practice is important, especially dry firing and positions. I personaly cant shoot off a bench. I shoot my best groups prone from a mat off a bipod or sandbags. If your shooting off a bench, you may want to try it on the ground. Its much more comfortable and stable. This whole thing is a learning process. Your learning your gun, your ammo, and yourself, and what each can do, and can do together. You just need to find the right mix. Just keep in mind, some guns can be like women, no matter what you do, it wont be right. Dont worry, it aint you. :)
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 8:52:37 AM EDT
Thanks for all of the replies. I'll buy a few boxes of the Federal Gold Match and see what happens. I'll post my results afterwards.

cmjohnson, that's the best 10 shot group I've ever heard of out of an AR. Would you sell me some of that ammo you used to get those groups?

Man, I hope none of the aftermarket companies are on this board. They're certainly not going to make any money off of you guys here!
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 9:57:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arizcowboy:
Thanks for all of the replies. I'll buy a few boxes of the Federal Gold Match and see what happens.



If you use Federal Gold Match you're likely to be disappointed. I know I was. The bullet they use is great, but their loading SUCKS!

I chronoed some I had purchased for use at a high power match and found I was getting every 5th round or so to be 100 fps off what the rest of the box was shooting.

I actually found the economy Olympic SS109 to be more consistant than my $22/box Federal Gold Match.

If you want GOOD consistant ammo try the Black Hills Match or even the match ammo from Georgia Arms would be a better buy.
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 3:37:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arizcowboy:

Man, I hope none of the aftermarket companies are on this board. They're certainly not going to make any money off of you guys here!



They make their money off me, just over time in components rather than a few boxes of loaded ammo. I can load 4-5 boxes of the same quality or better for what you pay for one box of the good match ammo. I can also "tune" it to the gun, although the factory stuff in some cases is hard to beat. The biggest plus is I get to shoot a lot more for the same money. Look into a small reloading set up, you wont regret it, I swear. :)
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 6:13:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arizcowboy:

cmjohnson, that's the best 10 shot group I've ever heard of out of an AR. Would you sell me some of that ammo you used to get those groups?



I think that group was what's called a statistical fluke. I haven't duplicated the feat yet, though groups in the half inch range are pretty repeatable.

I'm sloppy about keeping notes or keeping my loaded ammo sorted and separated by its precise loading, so I can't be totally sure about this, but I think that particular group was part of a run of 50 that I made up using matched brass, trimmed precisely, individually weighed and matched, with individually weighed charges, polished and matched bullets, and yes, even primers that were matched by weight. The loaded rounds didn't vary in weight enough for my scale to notice. I can scarcely think of a better way to maintain absolute consistency.

I plan to repeat the operation, only this time I'll mark the rounds with colored lacquer on the bases or something and keep them separate!

If I can make these, you can, too. It requires just patience and the will to be a nitpicker for a while.

And of course, you have to find out how the load works in your rifle. Your optimum load may be quite different than mine.

CJ

Link Posted: 11/19/2002 12:45:46 PM EDT
Things that effest accuracy:

1. Barrel (get a match barrel)
2. Ammo (use match ammo)
3. Trigger (get a good 2 stage trigger)
4. Float Tube (Free Float the barrel)
5. Optics (make sure your optics are stable and poerful enough)

Thats all you can do for an AR. You only lack better ammo then you have to step up to a better barrel if that is not satisfactory
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