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Posted: 11/14/2002 5:50:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2002 5:51:10 PM EDT by mcaswell]
(sorry for the cross-post... I posted this to the General forum, but things move too quickly there!)

Most (if not all) of us got out and voted a few weeks ago, and Republicans now have control of Congress. (Of course, this does not mean that Congress will automatically be 100% against all gun control.) Many of us are now have been writing letters to our Senators and Representatives to voice our opinion that the silly "Assault Weapons" ban be allowed to sunset without being renewed (or, heaven forbid, replaced with something even WORSE). If you haven't already written to your congressmen, DO IT NOW! Yes, it probably won't make any difference if your politicians are rabidly anti-gun, but it certainly couldn't hurt.

One thing to note... ask for a reply. State your opinions why you feel like the ban should not be renewed (no significant impact on crime; attempts to unjustly stigmatize a group of gun owners; creates a situation where if you want normal capacity mags for your pistol, you need to cough up an outrageous $100; just plain silly to ban certain guns based on cosmetic and ergonomic features that make a gun look scary, but do not make them any more lethal than any other firearm, etc.), and request a response letter. If he/she opposes letting the ban go away, make them tell you EXACTLY why. If they reply with some lame reason why they support the ban, write back and politely point out the inconsistencies in what they have stated. If they reply that they will oppose any efforts to renew the ban, write back and praise this decision, let them know how much you appreciate it, and point out that you will strongly support them in their next election.

In addition to your own letter writing, there is another way in which you can help. Consider the following 3 observations:

1) A few weeks ago, I was in a local gun shop, and overheard a conversation between the owner and a prospective pistol buyer. He inquired about how many rounds the pistol would hold, to which the reply was "There's a new law that limits it to 10 rounds." New law? I guess to someone who's been in the gun business for 30 or 40 years, maybe something passed 8 years ago could be considered a new law. No mention was made that the ban will sunset in 2 years.

2) Last weekend, at a CCW re-certification class, the instructor talked about the "Brady Bill" (background checks, waiting period, etc.) and also mentioned the AW Ban (didn't really talk about "assault weapons", instead concentrating on the magazine capacity limit). No mention of the sunsetting, though I somewhat rudely interrupted and pointed this out, suggesting that everyone present should write their congressmen (the other students seemed genuinely appreciative and interested in this).

3) Yesterday at a different gun shop, there are a couple of guys looking at ARs, and the sales guy briefly discussed pre-ban vs. post-ban with them. Again, no mention of the sunset.


So, you can see a pattern here. I get the distinct impression that very few people are even aware that the ban is set to expire in less than 2 years. While I suppose it could be said that some gun owners are indifferent to the evil-feature-based AW ban, with a little pleading perhaps even these folks could be persuaded to get involved. And just about everyone wants the reduced-capacity magazine thing to go away. My point is this... if you really want to work towards fighting the renewal of the AW ban, be PROACTIVE! Not only should you lobby for the ban to not be renewed, you should try to get others involved too.

For my part, I plan to design an anti-renewal poster, which I will distribute to local gun shops and shooting ranges. These will contain some basic information about the ban, why it should be allowed to sunset without renewal, and a suggestion to contact your congressmen. I'm in the graphics business, and have access to a wide-format printer which I can use to output very large posters (though I'll probably keep these around 12x18 or 16x20... if they're too big, it will be difficult to find a suitable place on the wall in a crowded shop).

NOTE: If anyone here wants to get involved in this way, and wants some of these posters for their area, e-mail me. I will supply posters FREE to anyone who asks (within reasonable limits... I can't afford to send everyone 50 of these!). All I ask is that you pay for the cost of postage (I can only absorb so much).

Joining gun rights organizations is good... but we also need to get a serious "grass roots" thing going here to better the chances of the ban going away. Get involved!

--Mike
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 6:21:20 PM EDT
I believe there is a definite pre ban sub culture of arrogance the haves vs havnots
It has also created alot of greed
Also often wondered how many of our esteemed congrsemen senators and other public officials
have profited from this abysmal act
YES I AM PISSED
We have alowed this to happen
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 8:45:22 PM EDT
Let me know when you have the posters completed. I'll get a couple for some local shops I frequent here in WA.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 9:09:08 PM EDT
Im ready for it to die.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 9:17:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JPC:
I believe there is a definite pre ban sub culture of arrogance the haves vs havnots
It has also created alot of greed
Also often wondered how many of our esteemed congrsemen senators and other public officials
have profited from this abysmal act
YES I AM PISSED
We have alowed this to happen



Thats just nuts! any gun owner who thinks so highly of him self due to a per-ban weapon must have a ity bity d!ck.

I spend more on guns each year that alot of people make and I don't have a per-ban so how do I fit in?

God help any gun owner that would sale out the others for a buck.
Link Posted: 11/15/2002 4:56:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JPC:
I believe there is a definite pre ban sub culture of arrogance the haves vs havnots
It has also created alot of greed
Also often wondered how many of our esteemed congrsemen senators and other public officials
have profited from this abysmal act
YES I AM PISSED
We have alowed this to happen



I totally agree. People who have paid premium dollars for a pre-ban (they got "theirs") may not want the AWBan to go away because then they'll just have an old rifle.
For those of you who feel that way, I pity you for caring more about your own personal interests than about the Constitutional Second Amendment.
And I pity you just as much if you were so ignorant as to spend maybe $2500 on a rifle knowing that the AWB always did have a good chance of expiring.

Teeline
Link Posted: 11/15/2002 5:37:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2002 5:39:22 AM EDT by MrP]
mcaswell,

I understand what you are saying. However, when I am selling ARs to customers, I am trying to educate them about the purchase. What makes the gun legal that that point in time. I tell them what they need to know about the legalities at this point in time.

I don't want to confuse the issue with politics. I don't want to seem pushy and possibly loose the sale. In addition, I don't want them to postpone their purchase for 2 years because they MIGHT be able to get the collapsing stock. An AR owner NOW is better for RBKA (and the store's bottom line) than a potential AR owner in the future.

I don't withhold info from any customer, I will certainly tell them about the sunset and give my political opinion if asked. There are lots of items I don't discuss with AR customers that I could. I don't tell them about chromed lined barrels, 5.56 vs .223, scope options, ACOG vs Aimpoint vs CMORE, flat tops, differences between AR15 and M16, milspec parts, barrel twist, M193 vs SS109, reloading, etc. Information overload to a customer who is excited about buying an AR, can cause them to leave confused without an AR. There are just too many options and info. The goal is to answer their questions and educate them about the purchase.

Do I want the ban to sunset? Absolutely
Will I work to help the ban sunset? Absolutely
Will I tell customers about the sunset? Absolutely if asked
Will I tell the customers about joining the NRA: Absolutely if asked
Will I tell the customer about ammo, accessories, options, opinions, etc? Absolutely if asked
Will I tell the customer about AR15.com? Hell no, they could learn more about ARs than I know and then take my job!
Link Posted: 11/15/2002 7:41:22 AM EDT
I believe that 90 percent of the population DO NOT KNOW that the law will sunset!!!

It is critical that we all write to our congress critters, and RESPECTFULLY ASK (don't demand) that they work to let it sunset.

Someone posted something on another forum that I agree with also. Ask them, if sunset is not politicallly possible, to try to amend the bill until it is meaningless.
Link Posted: 11/15/2002 10:20:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C_Brooks:

God help any gun owner that would sale out the others for a buck.



What, like the guy at the gun show last weekend selling LE/Military Only and dated mags? "Oh that doesn't mean anything"
No flame meant for you C_Brooks. I think I'm more angry at myself for not making a stink with the show promoters.

Anyway, I would be willing to spring for a couple of posters to take to a few of the shops I frequent.
Link Posted: 11/15/2002 10:26:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrP:
I understand what you are saying. However, when I am selling ARs to customers, I am trying to educate them about the purchase. What makes the gun legal that that point in time. I tell them what they need to know about the legalities at this point in time.

I don't want to confuse the issue with politics. I don't want to seem pushy and possibly loose the sale. In addition, I don't want them to postpone their purchase for 2 years because they MIGHT be able to get the collapsing stock. An AR owner NOW is better for RBKA (and the store's bottom line) than a potential AR owner in the future.



Hmmmm.... thank you for bringing up this viewpoint. This (gun shops not wanting a poster on their wall that very well may have the effect of deferring potential gun sales) is something I had not really considered.

This will factor into my design of the poster... I will put less prominence on the "pre-ban AW lust" factor, and stress high-cap magazines more (in other words, you can buy a Glock now, and if the ban sunsets, you can get cheap high-caps later).

--Mike
Link Posted: 11/15/2002 12:58:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Locutus:
I believe that 90 percent of the population DO NOT KNOW that the law will sunset!!!

It is critical that we all write to our congress critters, and RESPECTFULLY ASK (don't demand) that they work to let it sunset.

Someone posted something on another forum that I agree with also. Ask them, if sunset is not politicallly possible, to try to amend the bill until it is meaningless.



I think it's more like 99, hell there isn't 10 percent that can tell you what the legal def of an "assault weapon" is!
Link Posted: 11/15/2002 2:42:42 PM EDT
Folks, A buddy of mine and I talk about the AW ban and vent about it all the time. Recently when I spoke optimisically about it sunsetting, he told me that he heard already that Bush is going to renew it since it was considered political suicide to not do so. Please tell me (him) that he is wrong!

Link Posted: 11/15/2002 3:54:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theck:
Folks, A buddy of mine and I talk about the AW ban and vent about it all the time. Recently when I spoke optimisically about it sunsetting, he told me that he heard already that Bush is going to renew it since it was considered political suicide to not do so. Please tell me (him) that he is wrong!



I don't think a president can unilaterally institute a ban like the '94 AW ban. Apparently they can control imported weapons fairly easily, but if a president could otherwise ban huge numbers of domestically produced, legal guns with the stroke of a pen, don't you think Clinton would have done it? :)

But I'm assuming what your friend is referring to is whether or not Bush would sign the ban renewal (if passed by Congress). The answer to this is probably "yes". Yeah, that sucks, but that's reality.

--Mike
Link Posted: 11/17/2002 6:34:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcaswell:
But I'm assuming what your friend is referring to is whether or not Bush would sign the ban renewal (if passed by Congress). The answer to this is probably "yes". Yeah, that sucks, but that's reality.

--Mike



If the ban gets through congress, the president will sign it. If it gets through congress, that means that their is sufficient momentum in public opinion to push it through. Tthat would me that we and the NRA failed. It would also be a sign that the NRA has lost nearly all of its lobbying powers.

I do find it unlikely that a new ban will make it through congress. The Republicans don't want it. The demsarats are hesitant to endorse GC measures. They only people pushing will be the media and the antis.
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