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Posted: 11/8/2002 3:15:12 PM EDT
Noob alert :)
I've heard a couple of people now mention buying the lower and upper seperately. Is there any reason to do so if you are going with one company? For instance, is there truly a cost saving in buying a Bushy (or any other manufacturer for that matter) Lower and Upper seperately?
If so, what is the benefit of buying the rifle as a whole? Is it difficult at all to assemble the two (thinking not from what I remember from AFROTC in college)? Are there warranty issues?
Any help on the question appreciated.
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 3:50:45 PM EDT
Hey JRussell,

Also read your other post and this what I have learned.

A dealer can't ship a whole rifle to you. He can ship the upper directly to you and the lower to a FFL.

I just bought my first AR, a RRA with the M4 profile barrle.

I have seen pics on the EE board where the upper and lower fit and color don't match up so good.

Mine matches perfect in both ways.

The upper and lower are very easy to assemble, hell I did it.

I have no experience with other brands. I orderd my RRA from Pete-in-NH because he can custom build it any way you want and has very fast turn around. I also read on this site for many months before making my decission.

For what ever it's worth----good luck!


P.S. I got an A2 stock on mine, I'm 6'2" and this stock seems a little short for me. I can imagine the entry stock would not work at all, for me.
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 4:09:30 PM EDT
You can save a few bucks (or spend much more) by picking different lowers and uppers, but if you can buy a complete rifle that is configured the way you want then you get to see the fit and finish and have a warranty on the whole rifle...

I'm not big on finish matches, warranties, etc. and in the case of the RRA M4 you were asking about I liked the upper, but not their stock so I ordered upper/lower individually. Didn't really save much in the end, but got the config. I wanted. I also have other AR's that are factory built 'rifles' and like them the same as the ones I've pieced together.

Buying AR's depends on the supply too. I'm impatient when I decide to buy so that will lead you to buy separate upper/lowers too sometimes. Just depends on what you want I guess.



Link Posted: 11/8/2002 5:49:32 PM EDT
A complete rifle is automatically taxed an extra 11% because it is a complete firearm. You save a few bucks which can go toward accessories.
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 6:30:53 PM EDT
Numrich/CMT forged lower... $99.99
J&T 16" CAR upper kit..... $434.99
FFL transfer for lower..... $25.00
shipping................... $15.00
tax........................ $00.00

Total.......................$574.98

That's how much I have into my AR-15, and mine is as good or better than any store-bought gun.
Warranty? Hell, parts are cheap! Who needs a warranty?

Panzer Out
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 12:59:23 PM EDT
Ok. So when you say "save a few bucks", how much are we actually talking about here? I see Panzer's example, but what if I want to put together a rifle from one manufacturer (bushmaster or RRA for example), or put a lower from one and an upper from the other together?
From what I've been able to find it doesn't seem like you are saving enough money to make a difference.
Panzer, what made you go with J&T? I looked at there web site and their products are surprisingly inexpensive. Anyone know why?
Kightone, 11% on top of sales tax??? Seriously?
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 3:08:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JRussell:
Ok. So when you say "save a few bucks", how much are we actually talking about here? I see Panzer's example, but what if I want to put together a rifle from one manufacturer (bushmaster or RRA for example), or put a lower from one and an upper from the other together?
From what I've been able to find it doesn't seem like you are saving enough money to make a difference.
Panzer, what made you go with J&T? I looked at there web site and their products are surprisingly inexpensive. Anyone know why?
Kightone, 11% on top of sales tax??? Seriously?



Yes a complete firearms receives an additional tax. I believe this tax goes to the Man (ATF), which is reason enough not to give it to him. Just kidding. But it is crappy that it gets an extra tax.

A rock River lower might save you as much as $50 or $60 compared to a Bushmaster lower if you shop around. A lower from DPMS or Olympic might save you an additional few dollars. An upper will cost about the same from any f the larger manufacturers, although if you shop around you can save a lot. Bushmaster uppers will cost more because they use a higher grade steel in the barrel and chrome lining comes standard. The money you save isn't all that much, but that money can go toward ammunition or accessories.

J&T is inexpensive because their barrels are not chrome lined. Their barrel steel will also be the same that all the other companies (except Bushmaster) uses. Bushmaster uses a highr grade steel because it is milspec. Honestly, you won't know the difference. Some people just like the slightly stronger material because it is milspec.

The point is if you can save some money and get the same rifle, why not? If you really want the warranty and instruction manual, the free sling and the free guncase, then go for the complete rifle. Just keep in mind that the instruction manuals are basically the same and are available for free on this site. The sling and gun case they give you are worth less than $20. I don't foresee many problem you can't fix yourself if you know the AR. Hell, if you have a problem with anything, the manufacturer will repair it for free if it is their screw up. Once again, it's your choice.

My first AR was a complete because I didn't know all there is to know about the AR (not that I know all that much now, just more than I did) an i had not found this site yet.
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 8:13:54 PM EDT
I'm building one out of parts right now. it's turning out to be loads of fun, that's the only reason I am doing it
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 8:26:53 PM EDT
Go to gunauctions.com and get an Olympic complete rifle. 16" barrel,$549 with mags and box!
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 10:49:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bprob:
Go to gunauctions.com and get an Olympic complete rifle. 16" barrel,$549 with mags and box!




Doesn't that particular Oly plinker come with cast upper and lower receivers?

Panzer Out
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 11:02:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JRussell:
Ok. So when you say "save a few bucks", how much are we actually talking about here? I see Panzer's example, but what if I want to put together a rifle from one manufacturer (bushmaster or RRA for example), or put a lower from one and an upper from the other together?
From what I've been able to find it doesn't seem like you are saving enough money to make a difference.
Panzer, what made you go with J&T? I looked at there web site and their products are surprisingly inexpensive. Anyone know why?
Kightone, 11% on top of sales tax??? Seriously?




Way back when you could do a search of this board, I researched what other AR-15.com members thought of J&T products. The results were overwhelmingly positive. J&Ts uppers come with a 1-9 Shaw barrel and an upper receiver made by the same manufacturer that produces them for FN. The fire-control trigger kit is made by colt. All in all, it is a top-notch rifle kit. If my chrome-moly barrel ever wears out, I will replace it with a chrome-lined one. But I don't see that happening for many years, if then. In the meantime, my rifle looks great and shoots even better. I have the fixed M4
stock on my CAR-16 because, IMO, it seems more appropriate for the shorter gun.

Just my .02.

Panzer Out



Link Posted: 11/10/2002 4:54:29 PM EDT
I just last week assembled my RRA A2 with 20" SS barrel. Upper $410, lower $230, (these were including delivery) so my total for the rifle was $640, which I didn't think was too bad considering I put 2 minutes work into it.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:16:30 PM EDT
adco firearms and norala tactical have the best prices I've seen on rra uppers and lowers {example} rra car a4 midlength upper $360.00 a2 standard lower $210.00 thats $570.00 plus shipping and ffl fee
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:24:17 PM EDT
Sgmtino, great info! Do you have contact info for Noralco Tactical? Couldn't find them on the web.
Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:31:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JRussell:
Sgmtino, great info! Do you have contact info for Noralco Tactical? Couldn't find them on the web.
Thanks.



JRussell,

Here's the URL: server.norala.biz

Just FYI, click on the Industry link at the top and you'll find their link there along with a number of other affiliated merchants.

Hope this helps,

Drivie
Link Posted: 11/11/2002 4:25:37 AM EDT
Drivie,

Very cool. Thank you! I'm pretty much sold on buying the upper and lower seperately. In fact, if I decide to go with the Tactical Entry it looks like I can save around $100+ going with ET Upper, Complete upper without stock from Norala and the Shorty Entry stock seperately.

Thanks for all the help from everyone. It will still be a while before I start buying but I'll let you all know how it works out.
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