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Posted: 11/6/2002 10:07:02 AM EDT
I hope this is in an OK topic but here's the scoop.
I sold an AR to a guy in another state almost 8 weeks ago. He paid me using Paypal. Everything seemed to go OK..transaction cleared, got deposited in my account and I subsequently then transferred it to my own Bank account. Everything seemed to be over and done...was shipped to his FFL and was transferred to him (all legal well and good)buyer was happy with gun and I had my payment cleared and deposited.
A week ago I got an email from PayPal informing me they had "REVERSED THE TRANSACTION" and I now had that amount deducted from my account!!!!! Their claim was fraudulent funds. My first question is how can they reverse the transaction after THEY CLEARED IT and deduct it from me especially since it would be the payor's problem?
I have talked to the purchaser/payor and he claims there was no problem. He called Paypal and told them everything was OK. I believe the guy but he no longer has an account with them.
Paypal now claims since I shipped it to the FFL and not the purchasers verified address I was at fault!!!! I explained to the idiots that it had to go to the FFL legally and there certainly was a very official paper trail to prove he received the gun.
They claim it doesn't matter they are investigating HIS account and can take the money back from me even though it cleared!!!!
HELP.
Has anyone else run into this with Paypal and what course of action should I take.
To me this seems like fraud on Paypal's part since they now took my money and won't return it to him either. What kind of scam is this????
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 10:25:21 AM EDT
don't use paypal. Go to google.com and look up paypal. You'll find several hits about folks who are dissatisfied with them.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 10:32:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2002 10:33:22 AM EDT by AR-Frank]
I have had charges reversed on me as well ...though nothing in the neighborhood of a firearm. Paypal is not the one screwing you, it's the buyer. The transaction was reversed at his request ...no matter what he's telling you. You are not covered under their protection policy, since you did not send to his verified address.

My reversal was only for $50, so I argued a little, then swallowed it. I would encourage you to continue arguing the matter, since I would guess your amount is more along the lines of $700+.

One question: Has Paypal removed the reversed funds from your bank account / credit card yet? ...or just your Paypal account?

If it's just your Paypal account, I encourage you to close the bank or credit card account <linked to your Paypal account> immediately ...before they take real money from you.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 10:40:12 AM EDT
The first thing you do is to tell your bank to not allow funds to be removed from your acct.
@nd is to get a hold of his FFL and explain it to him. Get the buyers personal info from 4473 and call him and tell him unless he resolves this either by PayPal or cerrtified funds you are going to file a complaint with the ATF and his local PD for theft.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 1:19:44 PM EDT
My suggestion is to contact your local PD and file a report for fraud and/or interstate theft. They will be limited with the help they can provide due to jurisdictional issues, but at the least, they can get the serial number of the weapon entered into N.C.I.C. as a stolen firearm. Do some research on the law in your area or contact an attorney. The dollar amounts associated to the type of crime (Misdemeanor/Felony) varies from state to state. The Secret Service deals a lot with interstate credit fraud like this. They may be another source for your complaint and might be able to help or offer guidance. I've dealt with them before and they were very helpful.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 8:22:16 AM EDT
Why wouldn't I contact his local PD and report the theft of my property? I have his name, address SS#, etc. and I have verified it by talking to him. A fraudulent transaction is theft and my guess is local PD's are a little AR sensitive at this point in time.
Thanks
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:25:10 AM EDT
You need to contact YOUR local PD because thats where the incident/offense occured. You are the victim and the offense occured at your location. A complaining party has to sign a criminal complaint before the PD can take any actions or file any charges and in this case enter the rifle into N.C.I.C. A person can't just call in and make a complaint and state that something has been stolen over the phone. The PD can't legally accept that. They will also want to see some type of paperwork showing your previous ownership, i.e. receipt, bill of sale, etc. Feel free to contact the PD wherever the other party is and relay the information to them, but they are going to tell you that you have to file a report and have the rifle entered on the computer at your location.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:50:06 AM EDT
Thanks for the further info. I'll look into that.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 12:28:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LRigsby:
A person can't just call in and make a complaint and state that something has been stolen over the phone. The PD can't legally accept that.



Well in Detroit when you car gets stolen you file the report over the phone. But then again Auto is hardly a crime anymor in detroit. Sorry to get off sublect.

On the other side, is it really any of pay pals business what was sold. Funds from Account A were there to move to account B. Thats where it should stop, end of sale.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 2:24:59 PM EDT
Hey Gunsite

Sorry to hear about your troubles .Hope everything works out for you. Please keep us informed on the out come of this. Hearing stories like this reassures my worries in getting ripped off from long distant deals. Loosing a few $$ aint so bad but when your talking about this much it hurts. Face too face is the best way . (IMO) Good luck dude

Jerry
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 3:00:36 PM EDT
I am sorry to hear that you got hosed.

Anytime I have to transfer over $250 or so, I use an online escrow service. The fees are a little higher, but I would rather pay $20 than lose all my money, you know?

The escrow services are great, and there is zero risk.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 3:50:48 PM EDT
In the state of AZ, it is a felony to steal a firearm, regardless of the monetary value.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 4:42:29 PM EDT
Thanks again for the replys. Been advised legally to get a letter from the purchaser stating basically he authorized the transaction got the AR and was happy and he has has not received a credit to his account even though they have debited mine. He says no problem and will have it notarized. I think this guy is legit and the problem is with with Paypal. I know that people always complain about these crooks but we will see if they f**ked with the wrong guy.
I know it's like taking on City Hall but these guys have seemed to have had their problems in court lately. If the purchaser verifies the transaction and I got the money what's their problem??? Maybe I'll be their problem!!!!!
Any other advise is appreciated.
Thanks again to all the reliables on AR.com
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:25:28 AM EDT
Does anyone have an opinion on the letter. Seems like it might help if Paypal harasses me over the negative balance.
thanks
Link Posted: 11/11/2002 5:23:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Netsloth:
I am sorry to hear that you got hosed.

Anytime I have to transfer over $250 or so, I use an online escrow service. The fees are a little higher, but I would rather pay $20 than lose all my money, you know?

The escrow services are great, and there is zero risk.



Which escrow service do you use?
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