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Posted: 10/29/2002 4:43:58 PM EDT
new to the rifle ar family I need help picking one out first what ar the ar10 ar15 m4 m16 and what is a muzzle brake and what brand is good for around 900.00 what do you think of used and I have heard bad things about Olympic arms as far as shooting it it's just for target shooting I know were to get a used colt match target for 850.00 in good shape or do I go for a new rifle

I NEED ALL THE HELP I CAN GET ON THIS ONE
THANKS EVERYONE
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 5:29:10 PM EDT
I am a 5 time over AR owner and here is what I can offer you in the way of advice:

AR10 - a nice rifle, and defnately worthwhile, planning on getting one myself, but for a first AR I recommend .223 If you want .308 I can advise other rifle that are more accurate, and in my opinion more fun and easier to shoot.

M4 - without a class three liscense you can't own a true M-4. You will still have a 16" barrel, except 6" of that is a flash surpressor. No advantage to that over the full 16" barrel, which is more accurate. You can have a collapsable stock if you have a preban lower reciever or a fixed Collapsable-style stock on a post ban reciever.

M16 - The AR15 is just the civiilian version of the military M16. The only difference is that the M16 has a Bayonet lug (which you CAN have with a prepan upper) and the full auto capability, which, again requires a class 3 license for civilian purchae.

AR15 - The prefered choice, in my opinion, especially for a first time AR buyer.

Most of my AR's are 20" heavy Barrels. The 16" and lightweight barrels only offer a lighter rifle, which is only beneficial in civilian use during longer periods of standing fire. If you fire from a bench rest, sandbags or bipod I recommend the 20" barrel. A 24" barrel will offer even further accuracy, but I would still recommend the 20" for a first AR. If you decide you shoot the rifle enough, want increased accuracy and want to pay the added cost, then try a match grade 24". This offers a higher accuracy, which brings me to my first question for you...

At what distance are you planning on shooting?

As for stocks, unless you are going to commit the money into buying a preban rifle I strongly suggest going with the Full A2 stock as opposed to a 'imitation' fixed tele-style stock. This will give you more stabliity and the option for counterweights.

The last thing you will need to decide on is the handle, fixed or removeable. I can't help you with that unless I know how you are planning on shooting: Iron Sights, Tactical scope, Rifle Scope?

As for the manufacturer. I, personally, would advise you to stay away from Rock River, Olympic, and all other bargain brand AR's. I am a bushmaster fan, and have found that their product is equal to, if not better than colt, for a slighly lower price tag. In addition to Bushmaster and Colt the other company I would recommend is Armalite, the original designer of the series of rifle. But there you will pay out slightly more than Colt. And although there is an ongoing controversy as to which of the three is better I think that just backs buying a Bushmaster, which can rival (if not beat) the accuracy and dependabily of the other two, with a lower price tag. And the other thing I like about bushmaster is their customer service and quality backing. The one problem I did have was resolved with only the cost of shipping to myself. The way I would recommend Colt is if you choose to buy a pre-Ban. I think thier older products are of higher quality then their current.

Of course, then there are the issues of companies such as Wilson, which can customize or build an AR to incredible specifications, but are not designed for a basic beginner.

As for new or used, an AR is the same as any other rifle; it varies from gun to gun. Some used guns will be well kept and as same as new, except a slightly reduced cost. Just remember, you will get what you pay for.

I hope this helped
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 6:34:41 PM EDT
HELLO
I and going to be shooting around 100 yards with it with iron sights and do you know what brand that has a chrome lined I heard they are better for longer life and easy care and what is a muzzle brake and what is it for what do you think about a colt match target in real good shape for $850.00
thank very much for your help
thanks gp001
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 7:49:40 PM EDT
I heard that the current "Armalite" company had nothing to do with the original "Armalite" that fathered the first AR15. Is there any truth to that? And when did Matel Toys (Hotwheels) make the M16, or was that just BS?
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 7:50:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DallmannTodd:
AR10 - a nice rifle, and defnately worthwhile, planning on getting one myself, but for a first AR I recommend .223 If you want .308 I can advise other rifle that are more accurate, and in my opinion more fun and easier to shoot.



I have met several people that own AR10's. They say you would be hard pressed to find a rifle that is more accurate (other than custom sharpshooting rifles), more easy, and more fun. The AR10 is made by Armalite and their standards of production and dedication to producing an accurate rifle are unmatched. An AR10 will shoot better than 99.9% of shooters are capable of.


Originally Posted By DallmannTodd:
M4 - without a class three liscense you can't own a true M-4. You will still have a 16" barrel, except 6" of that is a flash surpressor. No advantage to that over the full 16" barrel, which is more accurate. You can have a collapsable stock if you have a preban lower reciever or a fixed Collapsable-style stock on a post ban reciever.



The 6" of flashhider is incorrect. I think you are getting the M4 confused with the commando/XM177 types of AR's. Those models had 11.5" or 10.5" barrels and require the extra long flashhiders. The M4 will usually be a 14.5" barrel with a 1.5" to 2" flashhider or muzzle brake (for postbans) attached. Colt civilian M4's will be that type or a 16" barrel with the step cut on it and a thresded muzzle (for prebans). The threaded 16" is the one on their LE carbine.


Originally Posted By DallmannTodd:
As for the manufacturer. I, personally, would advise you to stay away from Rock River, Olympic, and all other bargain brand AR's.



Rock River has, recently, proven themselves to be a quality manufacturer that rivals even Bushmaster. Ask anyone on this board who has bought a Rock River in the past year or year-and-a-half. I guarantee they will tell you that fit, finish, function, and quality is every bit as good as Bushmaster or Colt. They offer the best value for the buck while still maintaining an incredible level of quality.

DPMS is alos another manufacturer that is rarely spoken of, but is also a of good quality and also equal to the "big three."

Cavalry Arms also has been praised recently about their glass filled nylon receivers with the built in pistol grip and buttstock.

While Olyarms doesn't compare to the five previously mentioned, they still offer a decent product. There have been many people that stand behind their Olyarms rifles.


Originally Posted By DallmannTodd:
Of course, then there are the issues of companies such as Wilson, which can customize or build an AR to incredible specifications, but are not designed for a basic beginner..



I once thought about buying a Wilson AR. For the price, it isn't worth it. Wilson, Les Baer, and Knight's offer superb AR's. They include many custom features. However, the companiews listed above can provide those same or simiar features, or you could customize those rifles yourself. In the end, the price comes out the same or sometimes lower.
There just isn't that much of a difference unless you find a dealer that will give you a bargain on those.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 7:57:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 7:58:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gpat:
HELLO
I and going to be shooting around 100 yards with it with iron sights and do you know what brand that has a chrome lined I heard they are better for longer life and easy care and what is a muzzle brake and what is it for what do you think about a colt match target in real good shape for $850.00
thank very much for your help
thanks gp001



Bushmaster, Colt, and Armalite have chrome lining standard. Rock River ARms has it as an option ($35 extra i believe) . A chrome barrel will double the life of your barrel. It also makes cleaning easier. An unlined barrel, however, will offer you slightly more accuracy.

A muzzle brake will direct gasses in such a manner as to help reduce recoil and muzzle flip. They also make the rifle a lot louder than normal. They can also blow gasses toward the shooter or those around the shooter. Most feel that muzzle brakes are not worth the trouble especially on a 5.56mm rifle. in target shooting, I'd say forget the brake.

If the Colt match target is postban that is the right price. A new one can cost as much as $1100 (like at one of the stores near me). If it is close to new, it's well worth it.

If it's a preban, jump on that sucker! Though, it probably isn't.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 8:01:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pale_Rifle:
I heard that the current "Armalite" company had nothing to do with the original "Armalite" that fathered the first AR15. Is there any truth to that? And when did Matel Toys (Hotwheels) make the M16, or was that just BS?



Mattel made a toy M16 during the mid 60's. It had a mechanism that when the trigger pulled, a wheel with detents would spin and make a sort of machine gun sound. As the political climate of the country changed, mattel pulled the item from their line of toys.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 3:48:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pale_Rifle:
I heard that the current "Armalite" company had nothing to do with the original "Armalite" that fathered the first AR15. Is there any truth to that? And when did Matel Toys (Hotwheels) make the M16, or was that just BS?



Mattel never made a real gun of any type ever period. Urban Legend. However some other types of companies have made weapons for the US military when the extra production capacity was needed. Hydramatic, a company that made transmissions for General Motors, made M16s for example.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 1:01:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Mattel never made a real gun of any type ever period. Urban Legend. However some other types of companies have made weapons for the US military when the extra production capacity was needed. Hydramatic, a company that made transmissions for General Motors, made M16s for example.



In WWII, Singer Sewing Machines made 1911's and IBM, I believe, made BAR's. Happens all the time, but Mattel's M16 was but a child's plaything.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 4:04:45 PM EDT
ROCK RIVER ARMS.

Compare fit, finish, and stock trigger to any A,B,C rifle.

... Or, buy bushmaster. They can use the support!
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 8:44:54 PM EDT
I would stick with Bushmaster, Armalite, or RRA. RRA has really made a name for themselves in the couple of years. I love my Bushy though.

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