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Posted: 10/26/2002 9:28:11 PM EDT
Hey all,

I am in a quandry here. I am going to go coyote hunting after the new year and I need a rifle. Since I do not want a single use gun I want to get an AR-15 with a target barrel to do the job. The problem is that there are so many out there to choose from.
I have looked online at Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, DPMS, American Spirit Arms, Les Baer, Wilson and others that I cannot recall right now. They all look good but which one to pick? I cannot afford the Wilson or Baer, I want to try and keep it below $1,000. I have heard good things about Bushmaster and DPMS but have never seen either in the varmint configuration. I am looking for a rifel with a 20 or 24 inch barrel.
What would be your suggestions as to what company to go with? Do any of you have direct experience that you can lend to help me solve this dilemma? I have a few months yet so I have plenty of time to get ready.
Let me know what you think and what AR would be the best varmint rifle for the buck.

Thanks

Nala
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 12:39:39 AM EDT
Just bought an RRA varminter, total cost less scope was 870.00, the trick to getting around the 950.00 MSRP is to order it separate, have the nm lower shipped to an FFL and order the upper separate shipped to your home. Most makers charge 12% to ship a complete firearm. mine shoots reman sp ammo into sub 1" groups, does much better if I'm having a good day.
RR
Link Posted: 10/27/2002 5:59:34 AM EDT
Greetings! I too coyote hunt as well. I just started last year and shot a 22-250. Absolutely love the AR15's though and bought one this year that will be my coyote rifle. I looked at the 24" Varminter Bushmaster as well as many others. I ended up with the Bushmaster VMatch and couldn't be happier with my decision. It has a 1-9 twist, flat top, and easily shoots under 1" groups out of the box. I decided to buy the V match over the Varminter partly do to what I think would be a better resale market for a 20" barrel rather than the 24". It seems most looking want a 16 or 20" barrel. I also looked into DMPS, but they were 4-6 weeks out. Never held one but have heard very good things about them. Bushmaster and Colt of course own the vast majority of the market share of AR buyers. I doubt anyone would be dissapointed with the performance of the Bushmaster V match.
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 2:33:43 AM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 2:42:50 AM EDT
Be sure to look at an Olympic Ultra-Match, the only fully broched barrel, comes with a lifetime warranty, and a 60 day satisfaction guarantee.
I am very happy with mine, I got it for christmas last year, right around 1000.00, my ffl dealer gave me a good deal on it.

I saw one used in the equipment exchange a couple days ago for 800.00 I think.
Lance
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 7:08:01 AM EDT
Buy a colt CR6724 and you will never look back. Out of the box you will get sub 3/4" groups at 100 with factory ammo. Load your own and you can get .25-.5" groups at 100.

just my .02
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 3:45:31 PM EDT
Please forgive my newness to this forum. I own several AR,s. eight of them , I degress , I recently put a rock river heavy upper on a post lower it has a 24 inch tube 1 in 12 twist for lighter bullets.with a 4X16 tasco scope.I used sand bags, clean barrel and no break in of tube.

50yds one hole 5 shots

100 yds can cover 5 shots every time with nickel half the time with dime a few times , one ragged hole 5/16 ths twice in 6 tries.

I think for the money it shoots darn good useing ultra max 50 gr ballistic tip re -manufactured ammo . cost right around $470.00
to $500.00.

P>S I put chunk of rubber tube under back reciever pin.
Link Posted: 10/28/2002 8:10:51 PM EDT
I'm kinda partial to Bushmaster Varminters


Link Posted: 10/28/2002 11:16:47 PM EDT
Just be aware with the Bushmaster Varminter - it has a SAAMI .223 Rem chamber, not mil spec 5.56mm (which means, technically, you are not supposed to shoot military spec 5.56mm ammo in it).

Also, the chamber and bore are not chromed.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 2:04:58 AM EDT
Be sure to look at an Olympic Ultra-Match, the only fully broched barrel, comes with a lifetime warranty, and a 60 day satisfaction guarantee.
I am very happy with mine, I got it for christmas last year, right around 1000.00, my ffl dealer gave me a good deal on it.
END

I am glad your happy with yours. Mine was a piece of crap. I will never buy an OLY product again ever.
PAT
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 3:01:23 PM EDT

I am glad your happy with yours. Mine was a piece of crap. I will never buy an OLY product again ever.
PAT



Pat, just curious, what was the matter with yours?

Lance
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 8:46:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ElmerFudd:
Just be aware with the Bushmaster Varminter - it has a SAAMI .223 Rem chamber, not mil spec 5.56mm (which means, technically, you are not supposed to shoot military spec 5.56mm ammo in it).

Also, the chamber and bore are not chromed.


I have over 800 rounds through my three Varminter rifles using Q3131A 99% of the time and I have never had a KB nor any other problems. Bushmaster is well aware of the ammo that I am shooting and they have never once advised me to stop. The only suggestion that they have made is to use a heavier bullet once I go past 450 yards.
I have noticed that the more I shoot the better my groupings get. My next step is to go 600 yards using 68 grn. Hornady Match
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 9:27:58 PM EDT
can't go wrong with a Bushmaster, RRA , or DPMS
IMHO

You might consider the RRA varminter with the 1x8 barrel so you can shoot up to 75gr bullets with no problem
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 10:14:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2002 10:55:16 PM EDT by ElmerFudd]
GI_Brat, most people shoot mil spec 5.56mm through .223 Rem chambered weapons and never even know the difference. Will you have a problem? Probably not, and if you did it would probably not occur for many thousands of rounds, until perhaps near the end of the barrel life. Remember that the weapon is designed for a certain chamber presure. Exceeding it by 20% for thousands of rounds is not something I will do. All it would take is one barrel with some kind of flaw in it to ruin your day. And since most mass produced barrels cost the manufacturer $20 or so, I doubt their is any real quality check of individual barrel structural integrity. SAAMI classifies 5.56mm military spec ammo through a .223 Rem chambered weapon as unsafe. That's good enough for me.

www.saami.org/

Look in the 'Publications' menu, under 'Unsafe Arms and Ammunition Combinations.'

It should be noted that you have to look on the barrel to find the chamber spec, not the lower receiver. For instance, the Bushmaster Varminter lower receiver is marked 5.56mm, even though the upper is chambered SAAMI .223 Rem. The Varminter I saw did not have a barrel engraving stating this, it was only stated in the catalog (or it was not visible under the handguard).

I am not an engineer who designs weapons, and I have no knowledge of the degree to which a .223 Rem chambered AR-15 can take the stress of firing mil-spec 5.56mm ammo over the life of the weapon. I will listen to those in the profession who, conservatively no doubt, say it is unsafe. After all, my kids will probably own my rifles some day
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 4:46:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2002 4:47:20 AM EDT by davkenrem]

Originally Posted By cnatra:
can't go wrong with a Bushmaster, RRA , or DPMS
IMHO

You might consider the RRA varminter with the 1x8 barrel so you can shoot up to 75gr bullets with no problem



I have a 20in RRA Varmint Upper with the 1:8 twist on a U.S. Prop Marked RRA NM Lower from Pete-in NH. (matched upper and lower)and any thing above 62gr. shoots sweet, but Black Hills 75gr will be in one hole at 100yds. I really love it. The Matched sets Pete sells have a super tight fit between upper and lower, no need for the little red rubber piece to tighten fight. I've had 3 other AR's before this one, 2 Colt's and an (Oly M4 which rules by the way), and the the Colts were so loose that you really needed someting to tighten fit.
This RRA is the best AR I have ever shot.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 7:31:09 AM EDT
This debate has intriged me since I own a Varminter rifle as well, and I definatly do not want to load it with anything less than optimal or as specified.
Regarding the SAAMI specs versus the 5.56 specs...According to Bushmaster: the differences between the two specifications is in the casing. The difference amount to +/- 1/10th of 1 degree on the sholder of the casing. Bushmaster went on to say that this difference is so small that there is no harm in using military grade ammo in a Bushy Varminter rifle or anyother Bushmaster rifle. All they recommended was to stay away from Wolf and some South African ammo since it is steel cased. This is because the steel casing will eventually wear out the chamber more quickly than the brass casings. Also they said to stay away from Malaysian Ammunition becasue it is very inconsistent. With that ammo it is not unusual to have hot loads mixed with lighter loads in the same lot: according to Bushmaster.

Bushmaster assured me that they load everything they can get their hands on for testing purposes, especially if it is cheap since that is what most people like to buy. Their rep told me not to worry and essentially, to go out and shoot the hell out of the damn thing!!
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 7:36:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By davkenrem:

Originally Posted By cnatra:
can't go wrong with a Bushmaster, RRA , or DPMS
IMHO

You might consider the RRA varminter with the 1x8 barrel so you can shoot up to 75gr bullets with no problem



I have a 20in RRA Varmint Upper with the 1:8 twist on a U.S. Prop Marked RRA NM Lower from Pete-in NH. (matched upper and lower)and any thing above 62gr. shoots sweet, but Black Hills 75gr will be in one hole at 100yds. I really love it. The Matched sets Pete sells have a super tight fit between upper and lower, no need for the little red rubber piece to tighten fight. I've had 3 other AR's before this one, 2 Colt's and an (Oly M4 which rules by the way), and the the Colts were so loose that you really needed someting to tighten fit.
This RRA is the best AR I have ever shot.



I've got a 24" Varmint upper on a US Prop Lower (both from Pete-in-NH) also, and I will put my vote in for an RRA Varmint.

Jonathan
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 7:57:19 AM EDT
MEC89, the difference is in the chamber geometry as well as the casing. See the Ammo FAQ posted in the Ammunition forum on this site for details on it, it does a nice job detailing the differences and referring you to other sites. You have to be careful talking to customer service reps - you can get a different story depending on who you talk to - I know, I talked to a couple of Bushmaster ones myself.
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