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Posted: 9/11/2002 6:48:45 PM EDT
I am going to purchase an ar15 and I want to buy the one that has superior quality. i am going to get a 16' Carbine. I need to take a opinion poll on which brand is superior quality? Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS, or Rock River? Thanks for the advice!
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 6:59:01 PM EDT
ArmaLite M15A4 rifle or carbine. Lifetime warranty.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 6:59:22 PM EDT
Overall quality, I'd say either the Bushmaster or RRA. Armalite's good too, but hard to get.

I don't have alot of first hand experience with DPMS yet...I just placed my first order with DPMS a month ago and the company seems to be top notch, if that helps. I'm expecting them to ship my order next week.

But, since you asked for it, here it is...My personal preference goes to RRA because the quality is just as good as any of the others, but the price point is a bit better and if you need the chrome lined chamber and bore, it's just a $35 uplift.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 7:02:27 PM EDT
Quality is a relative term. Are you looking for a product that deviates the least from the manufacturing process or has the best fit and finish? Or are you looking at relative value? If price is not an issue then I would get ArmaLite. I think they have the best fit and finish and hold tolerances better then some of the other companies. My next choice would be Bushmaster for value and utility followed by RRA and DPMS.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 7:55:03 PM EDT
I vote for bushmaster. I have one, love it. Chrome barrel/chamber, durable mil-spec parts (as much as possible), awesome customer service that is UNTOUCHABLE by any other AR company, and they sell tons of rifles. Theres a reason, they know what they hell they are doing.

Good thing about a Bushmaster, is that even though they dont have a lifetime warranty, dont worry, you'll never need it :-)
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 8:38:01 PM EDT
No one has mentioned Colt. Is there a reason?
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 8:50:52 PM EDT
I would rate my MT6400C and CR6724 up there with ArmaLite. It has always been in the top two in my book. I think it is not see because it was not one of the mfg. he listed.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 8:54:31 PM EDT
In my limited experience with Colt, ArmaLite and RRA(just got my 9mm upper today), i feel that commercial Colt is in third place, while their military products are the best produced. ArmaLite comes in after Colt Military production. Then Rock River.

Beware the M15A4,it is a very heavy rifle. It has more forward weight than an A2HBAR, I think the Gas Block may be steel.

BTW, Colt is over-priced and the configurations are unimaginative. And they have stopped chrome-plating their bores.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 9:02:27 PM EDT
How would you compare between the armalite ar15 and the cavalryarms cav15? wolud appreciate some input...
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:30:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PostWhore:
I think the Gas Block may be steel.



It had better be - everyone elses are steel (BM, Colt, RRA, DPMS, Oly, ASA, etc)
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:41:28 AM EDT
Definitely Armalite. Best fit and finish details. Lifetime Warranty.
hinking.gif
AR means Armalite!
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:45:40 AM EDT
Guys, he said SUPERIOR quality.

That means you want a RRA. Same great warranty Armalite offers, better finish, trigger, barrel, accuracy, fit,...

Then again, if you want a shiny name, armalite and colt are ok.

I have shot them all. I only own a RRA now.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 6:42:50 AM EDT
Marksman14.....you say the Bushies customer service is untouchable by anyone else.....how many other ar15's have you owned and had to return them to the other manufacturers???
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 6:51:37 AM EDT
I personally don't think you can go wrong with anyone of these rifles....I bought a DPMS and think it is just great, but, have shot the rest and think they are ok also......One worth looking into is JP Enterprises.....I met the owner at our local gun range and shot 2 of his rifles and they shot really great also....You can't really go wrong with any of these rifles.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:11:25 AM EDT
All the brands you mentioned make quality rifles.
If this is your first AR-15, go with RRA.
They have the best prices right now and the quality is equal to all the top names.
This will save you some cash towards AMMO and other things.

Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:29:52 AM EDT


The "AR" in AR-15 stands for ArmaLite !!
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:32:57 AM EDT
American Spirit Arms
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:53:16 AM EDT
Armalite

It is well worth any wait.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 9:30:41 AM EDT
Well I have an Armalite and a Bushmaster. Was wondering if I should get an RRA or a Colt next.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 4:49:22 PM EDT

For me, being closest to a mil-spec rifle is most important. Function over looks any day. That means no other than Bushmaster.

-4150 steel
-5.56 chamber
-full chrome lining

Link Posted: 9/12/2002 4:58:51 PM EDT
ArmaLite, of course.


ArmaLiter
( No, I don't work for ArmaLite. )
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:04:00 PM EDT
Personally... i like my Colt. THe older ones are the best. True, the newer Colts are getting weird and overpriced... But i'll never give up my SP1. Get one of the Old CAR setups... of an SP1 with the collapsing stock and 16" barell...
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:06:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2002 5:09:35 PM EDT by Pete-in-NH]
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:08:19 PM EDT
RRA all the way.. i love mine.. it has a lifetime warranty to as i was told.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:09:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By PostWhore:
I think the Gas Block may be steel.



It had better be - everyone elses are steel (BM, Colt, RRA, DPMS, Oly, ASA, etc)



When i say gas block I am refferring to the weaver rail(on my rifle)that holds the gas tube to the barrel. On an A2, they are aluminum. JP Enterprises makes aluminum, and I have seen other aluminum gas blocks from other manufacturers.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:22:17 PM EDT
(BTW, Colt is over-priced and the configurations are unimaginative. And they have stopped chrome-plating their bores.)

Colt bores are still chrome plated
i just bought 2 weeks ago and it is.

Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:32:31 PM EDT
I own a 20" Armalite M15A4 and it is a fantastic rifle!

My best friend took my advise and built a 20" A2 from RRA.

The fit and finish on the two rifles are the same. Beautiful! The Armalite hand guards are a bit better in quality then the RRA. The trigger on the RRA is a bit better then the trigger on my Armalite.

If I had to do it all over again, or if RRA was available when I was shopping, I would go with RRA and spend the extra $300 on mags and ammo!

I'm sure that in the long run the Armalite will fetch a better price if I should sell it, but I would sell my house and live under a bridge before I would part with my M15A4. My next AR will be a RRA.

RRA's are Cadillacs at Chevy prices!
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:35:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2002 5:38:29 PM EDT by tooly]

Originally Posted By MP906:

For me, being closest to a mil-spec rifle is most important. Function over looks any day. That means no other than Bushmaster.

-4150 steel
-5.56 chamber
-full chrome lining



Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:04:39 PM EDT
RRA all the way. Don't get me wrong, Bushmasters are nice little firearms also. It's just that the fit, finish and quality control on the RRA is that much better. And price wise, a better choice can't be had. My only complaint with RRA is that most of their offerings seem to be in heavy barreled configurations and that they *never* answer e-mail.

I wouldn't be to concerned with "life time warranties". For one thing, unless they really screwed up there's not much you can't repair yourself rather than dealing with the shipping and repair turn around hassles.

Plus, as far as I'm aware (as with any warranty), once you make any modifications, additions or changes the warranty is voided anyhow. Last but not least; once the assault weapons ban sunsets and is reincarnated worse than before these life-time warranties won't mean shit once the company goes belly up.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 8:56:48 PM EDT
I'm afraid Lickity-Split has an excellent point. As to which rifle to buy; well, I have an Armalite M15A4C and I absolutely love it! Great quality, ultra reliable and accurate. Having said that, if I was in the market for a new rifle right now, I'd definitely have to take a hard look at RRA. The quality seems to be right up there with Armalite, and the price is better. I doubt you'd be disappointed with either. Shoot well.-TR


Originally Posted By Lickity-Split:
Last but not least; once the assault weapons ban sunsets and is reincarnated worse than before these life-time warranties won't mean shit once the company goes belly up.

Link Posted: 9/13/2002 6:26:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2002 6:28:57 AM EDT by Kevin]
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 10:30:48 AM EDT
Thought this was a good read:

Required Features

Too often people judge rifles by ‘fit & finish’ or form over function. For a serious rifle you must ignore the superficial cosmetics and go to the working parts. First off what is needed for a "serious" AR-15? There are several features that should be considered, these features are all present in Military M16s, but not in all civilian AR-15s. In order of importance (IMHO) they are: M16 sized chamber, chrome lined chamber, mil-spec heat treated fire control parts, chrome lined bore, a chrome lined bolt carrier, and standard sized fire control pins. The ‘serious’ AR should have a forged lower receiver and a forged front sight for maximum strength.

The M16 sized chamber is a bit larger than its civilian counter part (the SAMMI spec). It will allow you to safely shoot military ammo (especially tracers) and are usually slightly larger in diameter to be able to handle dust & dirt.
The chrome lined chamber aids in extraction with it’s very smooth, hard, and slippery surface. It also is very corrosion resistant (good for those who live in wet/humid environments).
The Mil-Spec heat-treated parts are for long-term reliable operation and to minimize wear (some of the parts vendors sell stamped parts that will wear much quicker).
A chrome lined bore helps resist corrosion, extends barrel life from wear, and makes clean up much easier. Note that all non-stainless barrels are Chrome/Moly steel of some kind, very few are chrome-lined.
The chrome LINED (not on the exterior) bolt carrier is good for reliable operation and ease of cleaning.
The standard sized fire control pins are mostly for replacement parts. With standard sized pins you can use 90% of the available AR parts and you can use surplus M-16 parts in a pinch (I recommend demilling them to AR standards before installation to avoid potential problems with the BATF).
One other feature a working rifle should have is a lightweight (not HBAR) barrel, a minimum of 14.5" of barrel length (flash hider/muzzle brake not included), and 1:9 or 1:7 twist. We will talk more on this in other paragraphs, and how to get one if you already have an HBAR.

4150 barrel steel is a "nice to have" feature, as opposed to the lower grade, less expensive 4140 steel. It’s not a critical feature, but the barrel will last longer.



Feature Compliant Manufactures

Of all those features, only one manufacturer currently gives you all these features, two others come close. If you buy a rifle (or kit) from someone other than those listed you are taking some chances with reliable operation and long-term wear. The least ‘compliant’ of the Big Three manufactures surprisingly is Colt! Colt no longer chrome lines the bores of their rifle (gives a bit more accuracy), and their fire control pins are usually (90% of the time) non standard (limits parts availability). Lately they have also been a bit cheap on the trap door buttstock and buffer, but at least are now offering the rifle with two push pins to separate the receivers. Note that older rifles may have the chrome lined bores, and may not have the font take down pin. Colt usually has the best quality control (though they have been slipping a bit lately), but the worst customer service (good thing they usually make the rifles right the first time!). Colt is a good choice if you are looking for the most accuracy possible. The next manufacture to consider is Armalite, but only those rifles with the chrome-lined chambers & bores. Note I said Armalite, NOT Eagle Arms, while they come from the same factory the Armalites have the chrome lining in their barrels. Don’t let the clerk try to sell you the more accurate rifle with the stainless barrel - You want reliability over accuracy. The only point where the Armalites fall short is in the chamber. While Armalite has repeatedly promised, during the last 2 years, they were going to the M16 spec chamber in their chrome-lined barrels. Well recently they admitted it had not yet been done (but its coming soon…). Armalite is the only one of the ‘Big Three’ to not use the mil-spec 4150 steel in their barrels. The tougher steel is nice, but not critical in this rifle, as the chrome lining will help extend the wear. On the plus side they do have a lifetime warranty and better quality control than the last of the Big Three. The last of the Big Three is Bushmaster. Bushmaster is also the ONLY one to offer all of the desirable features, and is the closest to the rifles used by the US military. You want to select a model that has a chrome lined bore (this leaves out the DCM rifle and the new Varmint rifle). Bushmaster also offers several ‘lightweight’ barrel options for post ban rifles (16" M4 barrel {best}, the M4/AK barrel, and the M4 Dissapator [16" barrel with rifle sight radius]). They also offer all their HBARS in fluted form for a modest weight reduction. By the way in 1999 Bushmaster made more AR-15s for the commercial market than ALL the other manufacturers (in the US) combined. With such a large number of rifles produces sometimes little things get by. The biggest complaint is the barrel is improperly torqued, resulting in a rear sight that is all the way to one side when zeroing. I don’t worry about it, if you do then send it back. Bushmaster has great customer service and is quick about fixing any glitches or problems. Note even the Big Three occasionally turn out a lemon - it happens to the best of manufacturers. All of them will take the rifle back and get it fixed (though it may take a while with the Colt). Just be sure to maintain them properly and you should have minimal (near zero) problems.



-http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/ar15sforserious.htm



Link Posted: 9/13/2002 10:49:12 AM EDT
MP906 just called armalite yesterday if the m15a2 I'm getting is 4140 or 4150 they told me I'ts 4150 also 5.56 and chrome-lined...
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 2:36:07 PM EDT
I've got a Colt Match Target that I've had ZERO problems with and I'm more than happy with it's accuracy. I also recently bought a DPMS A-15 in the 16" barrel "shorty configuration. Very nice weapon, tight fits all around, great accuracy, only issue was some ammo restrictions (mainly against Winchester Q3131 & Q3131A & Wolf). IMHO, I'd buy any of the brands mentioned, except American Spirit. (I hope DOCPIG was joking...)
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 3:02:56 PM EDT
MP906 confirmed that Colt no longer chrome lines their bores.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 8:26:55 PM EDT
Colt chrome lines their military profile barrels, (i.e. M4 barrels, Govt. Profile barrels, and their lightweight carbine barrels). Colt HBARs will have chrome chambers, but not bores.
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