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Posted: 9/4/2002 7:42:28 AM EDT
Greetings!

My first post here. Was up until about 1:00 AM this morning (!!!) reading posts on the boards here doing some research and gathering information. Lot of good information, and feedback from about any side of a situation (enough to almost leave a guy torn with a decisions).

Well anyway, I'm about to delve into my first AR15 purchase. Last fall I shot a buddy of mine's Bushmaster A2 w/20" barrel. Once was enough to fall in love with the AR15. I'm finally getting financially stable enough to save up for one, and am zeroing in on what will be my final purchase (hopefully within the next month). I'll start by saying that I'm fairly settled on one of two models, but not totally yet. If I can afford it, I want to go with the BM XM15 E2S A3 20" barrel rifle (to keep my options open in the future with mounting optics, etc). Otherwise, I am looking at the same rifle my buddy had, a BM XM15 E2S A2 20".

Now, here's where I want some feedback with as little bias as possible. Again, I have already gotten a lot of feedback just by reading relevant posts here (read about all I could in last 3 months).

Frist, BM M4 style

pros:
light weight
less kick up
more maneuverable

cons:
less velocity at a distance
loud
heard the stationary stock isn't very freindly to rest cheek on

This relatively true? I really like the pros to this rifle, but in consideration that I would like a bit more accuracy / velocity at a distance, it doesn't seem feasible. Also, not sure I would like the not so pleasant feel of the stock it has. Looks cool, but i'm by all means in favor of functionality over cool. It seems the 16" barreled rifles give you less weight and more freedom of movement (ala CQB), but at the cost of that velocity and accuracy at a distance.

I guess the question is: what will I use it for. I plan more just for plinking, possibly varmint hunting (when I go back to my parents farm), target practice at the range... that kinda thing. I would wager the relatively clear answer is: get an A2 or A3 in 20".

I'll throw this into the mix. I don't have a ton of money to spend here. looking into the ~$700 range, but think if I needed to and it was worth it, would push up to around ~$800. Post-ban of course, too. I'd also like some feedback on the V Match rifles and marminter rifles (considering prices too... I'm not toally up to speed on all the prices, so some insight into what I can expect in these models for prices would be great, too).

Anyway, like I said, I'm relatively settled on the 20" A2 or A3, but would like any more insight if anymore can be had.

Thanks everyone!
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 9:41:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2002 9:43:16 AM EDT by MillerSHO]
Buy the A3 for sure.

It will cost alittle more but leaves you with more options in the future.

About your Pros and cons:

The M4 is lighter making it more maneuverable.
When you say kick up, I'm just going to guess you mean recoil. My buddies Pre-ban M4 style actually kicks to the point where the charging handle now hits my nose during recoil.
My 20" w/ Mini Y doesn't kick AT ALL.

Yes the 14.5" or 16" Will yield less velocity.
Refer to the Ammo FAQ if you want to know by how much.

When punching through metal or solid objects, 20" with M193 is noticeably more effective compared to the smaller barrels.

There both loud.

The standard A2 buttstock is VERY cheek weld friendly, more so then the M4 IMO.

The 14.5 and 16 barrels I wouldn't say are less accurate due to the size of barrel, I think that's more of a sight radius thing, which can be "fixed" with the dissipator model. (16" barrel with full length handgaurds and sight radius)

Whatever you decide, you will get a great rifle.

Remember, the firearm isn't going to financially put you under, but the ammo will.

Edited to say Buy the 20" barrel.
For your use (and 95% others on this site) the 20" is more suited for your needs.
Also the 20" makes a perfect first AR.

Link Posted: 9/4/2002 9:57:39 AM EDT
I was referring more the the BM M4 with the mini Y not having the kick. I may looking later down the road into getting some sort of muzzle brake, or seeing what kurt can do for whatever I get to help eliminate any type of kick.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 1:03:56 PM EDT
I own the Bushy XM15 E2S which is the national match target rifle 20" HBAR. Its a great rifle, steady, accurate(less than 1/2" groups at 100Y consistently). Mine cost $889 exactly and thats tax included. I got it from B-T Shooting Supplies, very good dealer in Ohio. The only issue i have with the rifle is the shitty trigger, it feels like really gritty when i start pulling the trigger. Anyone know how i can fix this besides getting a new trigger right away. Other than that i love my rifle.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 2:27:26 PM EDT
i think, based on the amount of money you want to spend, you should go with an RRA. i have a bushmaster and love it but all of the RRA's that i have seen were dead on comperable and $100 cheaper.

ian
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 11:33:02 AM EDT
I just got off the phone with a dealer / gunsmith here and he went to the extent to tell me that pretty much any AR15 is the same thing. He was telling me he could sell me an Olympic Arms 20" A2 model for $699, or if you want to pay for the name, get a Bushmaster for $799. He went on to say about how all of colt's stuff back when was sold off to all these other companies, and essentially it's the same stuff. Seems contrary to all I've read and I want the skinny on what differences I would be seeing if I bought, say, the Olympic Arms vs. the Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 11:49:18 AM EDT
Olympics have been known to have QA/problems with tolerances. Would stick with Bush, Armalite, or RRA. I have 2 Bush lowers, 2 Bush uppers, and a RRA DCM upper that shoots just fine with absolutely no problems at all.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 5:23:26 AM EDT
Sounds like you have picked A winner. I just finished up my first real round of shooting my new bushmaster. It is the 20" national match target A3 with detach handle. Excellent accuracy. I was putting 3 shots in the same hole at 50 yards, and definately within an inch at 100 with the A2 sights. I got it from Youngs Guns on gunbroker.com and recieved it shipped and all for only $799. Thats the best deal I could find on an XM15E2S A3 20" barrel. Buy it you wont be disappointed in the accuracy.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 5:32:57 AM EDT
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