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Posted: 8/30/2002 8:26:16 AM EDT
The 2 models in question are:

Colt M4A3 (LE6921)
www.sawlesales.com/jsps/sku.jsp?field=Part&value=LE6921

Bushmaster M4A3
www.bushmaster.com/le/weapons/bushmaster_xm15_e2s_m4a2_carbine.htm

Which would you choose and why? Both are semi-auto versions. Thx.
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 8:28:18 AM EDT
Do you have any idea what worm can you just popped open........

Link Posted: 8/30/2002 8:37:07 AM EDT
You might save some money on the BM but you will probably be equally happy with either one. Get ready for the two camps to completely disregard such a simple, rational answer. Instead, both sides will commence throwing sand at one another shortly.
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 8:43:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2002 8:48:22 AM EDT by G22]

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:
Do you have any idea what worm can you just popped open........
hr


Nope, no idea. Just need help choosing my first AR and I like these 2 the best so far. I am also in Canada so they should be available although a lengthy wait. I am liking the Chrome lined bbl and 1:9 of the bushy though.

To be honest though, I never even heard of Bushmaster, or Armalite, or any other manufacturer for that matter up until a month or so ago when I started looking for my first AR. Ever since I was a kid and always wanted an 'M16' I have always associated them with 'Colt'. From what I am hearing now, there are better manufacturers for the money, ability to customize, standardization, etc.

Someone convince me that the Bushy is better
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 8:47:16 AM EDT
The answer is obvious, get both.
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 8:53:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By G22:

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:
Do you have any idea what worm can you just popped open........




Nope, no idea. Just need help choosing my first AR and I like these 2 the best so far. I am also in Canada so they should be available although a lengthy wait. I am liking the Chrome lined bbl and 1:9 of the bushy though.

To be honest though, I never even heard of Bushmaster, or Armalite, or any other manufacturer for that matter up until a month or so ago when I started looking for my first AR. Ever since I was a kid and always wanted an 'M16' I have always associated them with 'Colt'. From what I am hearing now, there are better manufacturers for the money, ability to customize, standardization, etc.

Someone convince me that the Bushy is better




Personally, both are good rifles (Colt & Bushmaster). Armalite started it all.
What I meant by my post is, get ready for all the "Colt Only" crowd to start with the mud pies.

Link Posted: 8/30/2002 8:54:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2002 8:55:33 AM EDT by ArmedAggie]
You came to an excellent place to find info.

Unfortunately, there may be a lot of filtering to get to it.

You will find fans of almost all camps here and I doubt there is a 100% definitive way to choose. Fortunately, you don't need to. Any of the most popular (for varying reasons) makes will serve you well. The easiest way to be sure you get the right one is to buy one of each.

The deciding factor usually ends up being availability. It has been my experience that the LEO models are usually easier to get. The wait comes in if you order fairly custom or low production models or components.

Keep asking here and you will find a hundred people more qualified to answer than me. These are just my impressions.

[edited to say]

Oh, yeah, COLT ONLY!!!!
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 9:09:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By G22:Someone convince me that the Bushy is better


OK. You can be sure that the BM has standard-sized pins so that things like an aftermarket trigger will be sure to fit. With the Colt you might need special parts with different pin sizes. And the Colt may not have a chrome lined bore.

But I'm sure you'll find either one to be a well-built rifle that you'll be happy with.
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 9:25:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2002 3:30:33 PM EDT by BlackDog714]

Originally Posted By Mike_L:

Originally Posted By G22:Someone convince me that the Bushy is better


OK. You can be sure that the BM has standard-sized pins so that things like an aftermarket trigger will be sure to fit. With the Colt you might need special parts with different pin sizes. And the Colt may not have a chrome lined bore.

But I'm sure you'll find either one to be a well-built rifle that you'll be happy with.



You will get a chrome lined barrel with either, and both are great, however due to the fact that Colt is the sole supplier of the M4's to the US military, and we are in a war, it might be easier to get the Bushy!



Edited for proper designation
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 10:09:00 AM EDT
Both manufacturers make GREAT rifles. The Bushy is probably closer to 'the real thing' with a chrome bore and chamber. Colt however, does (in my opinion) do a better job of finishing the receiver parts.

I own one of each; A Bushmaster M4 and a Colt CAR 15.

I love 'em both. If it were my first one, I'd purchase the rifle that was the less expensive of the two. That way, if you decide you don't really like it, you don't have an arm and a leg invested.

-REAPER2502
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 1:25:21 PM EDT
Does the Bushy come with the features that define a true M4? Feed ramps? Handguards? Side sling adapter? Factoring those items in will raise the price of the Bushy and narrow if not eliminate any price gap between it and a Colt.

Also search the various forum here to see which brand has more reported problems and draw your own conclusions about which is better made.

As for the 1/7 vs 1/9 twist rates, you will likely not be able to determine much if any difference between the two, especially with a 14.5" or 16" M4 type barrel.
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 1:27:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2002 1:30:01 PM EDT by G22]
I do not see the LE6921 listed on Colt's site. Below is one site that has it listed.
www.sawlesales.com/jsps/sku.jsp?field=Part&value=LE6921

Is there in fact a Semi-Auto version of the M4A3? Someone mentioned it had 'M4 LE Carbine' stamped on the receiver. Anyone know the details on this AR?

PS. I called Colt to find out if they had it or not... they would not help at all. They said to call R Nicholls distributors (believe they are in Quebec) I called them and got the run around, transferred 3 times. Finally got to someone, and they would not help period unless I am a dealer, even asking if a particular model was avialable for export to Canada. This is getting very discouraging to say the least
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 1:31:10 PM EDT
Why not call Specialized Armament Warehouse themselves? They are an authorized Colt distributor and service facility.
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 1:36:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2002 1:50:50 PM EDT by ArmedAggie]
This is the LEO Colt model:

www.colt.com/colt/html/a2f10_carbine0.html
Link Posted: 8/31/2002 5:01:14 PM EDT

PS. I called Colt to find out if they had it or not... they would not help at all.
This is why you should get a Bushmaster. Give them a call, and notice the difference.
Link Posted: 8/31/2002 6:54:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zardoz:

PS. I called Colt to find out if they had it or not... they would not help at all.
This is why you should get a Bushmaster. Give them a call, and notice the difference.



I might just end up doing that.

1) Colt customer service was somewhat rude to me and would not even answer a simple question. I just wanted to confirm a model actually existed.
2) They do not accept email.
3) They do not have a catalogue, at least I cannot find one.
4) The products on their website are not up to date it seems. Where is the LE6921 model I am hearing about?
5) There does not seem to be any Colt reps floating around ar15.com like Bushmaster who seems very helpful. If I am wrong, what is the nickname?

Just these things by themselves really piss me off and enough for me to go with Bushmaster.

Link Posted: 8/31/2002 7:05:08 PM EDT
Give them a call or e-mail Bushmaster any questions you have. I can almost guarantee you will not be disappointed with the service they give you. They recently forgot to include the brass loop for a dewey rod that I ordered. When I notified them they promptly sent it out with no questions.
Link Posted: 9/1/2002 10:02:19 AM EDT
Let's muddy the water a bit more.....

www.rockriverarms.com/m4_entry_tactical.htm
Link Posted: 9/1/2002 10:28:29 AM EDT
I would say go with colt if you can. talk to Dennis Todd or ken or Tina Elmore with S.A.W either sould be able to get you what you want. The extras you get with a Colt makes the price gap gets smaller. Like handgaurds, feedramps cuts, Bushmaster normal doesn't include the carry handle.Also most of the LE colts that I have seen have the mil. spec pins. I'm sure Ken could let you know.

Clinth
Link Posted: 9/1/2002 10:57:53 AM EDT
Forget about the LE6921 , this model is discontinued since 2 years ago , get the LE6920 it's the same thing except it has a 16" barrel ,

You should subsribe to The Canadian Access , you will find all what you need to know including a list of Canadian dealers.

And take a look at this site :
pub72.ezboard.com/bcanadiangunnutz

Link Posted: 9/1/2002 12:15:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Boomer:
Does the Bushy come with the features that define a true M4? Feed ramps? Handguards? Side sling adapter? Factoring those items in will raise the price of the Bushy and narrow if not eliminate any price gap between it and a Colt.


This is true of the Commercial models, the Colt has the true M4 handguards, the Bushmaster comes w3ith regular carbine handguards, and their M4 "style" handguards are not as good if you pay extra for them.
Side Sling mount is extra, and the feed ramp cuts are only available on the Colt.

Colt has the larger hammer and trigger pins, but since it IS Colt, almost all aftermarket triggers are also made in the larger diameter to fit them.
Link Posted: 9/1/2002 12:54:35 PM EDT
quote]

You will get a chrome lined barrel with either, and both are great, however due to the fact that Colt is the sole supplier of the M4-A3 to the US military, and we are in a war, it might be easier to get the Bushy!

FN is the sole supplier of the M16. Since 1988 FN Manufacturing, Inc. (FNMI) has been the U.S. manufacturer selected to build the M16A2 Assault Rifle presently in service with the U.S. Military. or from the source:
www.fnmfg.com/products/m16/M16.htm

BUSHY IS CHEAPER,
Colt was used in NAM, so it has relic value
Bushy parts are cheaper
Aftermarket accesories will fit bushy better
Fit and finish on a bushy are excellent.

Gaspain
Link Posted: 9/1/2002 1:59:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaspain:
quote]


FN is the sole supplier of the M16. Since 1988 FN Manufacturing, Inc. (FNMI) has been the U.S. manufacturer selected to build the M16A2 Assault Rifle presently in service with the U.S. Military. or from the source:
www.fnmfg.com/products/m16/M16.htm

BUSHY IS CHEAPER,
Colt was used in NAM, so it has relic value
Bushy parts are cheaper
Aftermarket accesories will fit bushy better
Fit and finish on a bushy are excellent.

Gaspain



Yes FN build the M16a2 but The M4's are Colt only. FN can't build unless Colt sub contracts to them.

Clinth
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 11:59:35 AM EDT
why not a ARMALITE !!
ABC... baby.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 3:33:09 PM EDT
Go with the AUTHENTIC COLT! Buy a real Colt as your first gun. Buy a counterfeit later. I have my Colt Accurized model and I absolutely love it! fit and finish are second to none and it groups under 1/2"@100 yards.

There are REAL M4 features you cannot get on the Bushy. If you want a real M4, then do it right the first time! You'll also be one of the only people on this board with a real Colt m4.

Get the colt, do it for the children!
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 12:31:11 AM EDT
If you want a rifle that looks like an M4 then get the Colt. Ixnay on what I was going to say. If you can get an LE Colt M4 get it and run.

For us in the "Land of the Free??" I'd go with Bushmaster because they are closer, parts wise
to an M4, other than hand guards, etc.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 4:53:06 AM EDT
Let funk it up a little more...

I fortunately own examples of both. I have a preban Colt Sporter Target that has been converted to CAR15 proportions. I also have a Bushmaster A3 Shorty which has a heavy machinegun barrel profile. Between the two, I can't say I like one more than the other.

I can say that unless Colt has recently changed their civilian manufacturing practices, the Bushmaster is easier to find lower reciever parts for because it uses standard pins all the way around. My Colt has oddball hammer and trigger pins as well as a HUGE forward pivot screw instead of a proper, smaller push pin.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 5:41:43 AM EDT
G22 Dont worry the Colt LE6920 like the 6921 both uses standard pins and a small front pivot push pin.

BTW there is one 6920 for sale here :www.gunscanada.com/auction/lot.cfm?lotID=2789


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