User Panel
Posted: 9/8/2017 10:07:43 AM EDT
Well, after over 10 years and many thousands of $$, they got me pissed and disappointed.
Back on July 13, I ordered a PSA 16" Carbine Length CHF M4 5.56 NATO 1:7 Upper. It was on sale for $259. A great deal that I couldn't resist. It arrived a few days later with a loose handguard cap. That's the metal ring and goes against the FSB and holds the front of the handguards on. It was probably the wrong size due to the amount of looseness. Any handguard that I installed wobbled since the mounting cap itself was loose. After a few weeks of dealing with CS (I think they thought I was complaining about loose handguards) I finally convinced them that this is not my first upper and the damn thing is so loose it flops around it my hand. They sent me an RMA and shipping label and back it went. Up to this point it's just inconvenient but they acted appropriately with decent CS. Now, it's Sept 8 and over a month later, still no upper. After my e-mail asking WTF, they responded with " We have received further correspondence from the repair team, stating with their current queue, repairs will be around forty business days from the point of arrival". Am I being told to go f#*% myself? |
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[#1]
40 days to repair? 2 hours to wait for a CS rep?
Sounds like a chronic staffing shortage there |
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[#2]
While that sucks... I don't feel like they are "blowing you off" .... yes that is a LONG time frame....but..
I kind of think they do various builds / deals with "bulk ordering of parts". And if they run out of parts, they just don't offer it for sale... so it "may be" that are waiting on parts. It may be that your barrel is out of spec at that problem point.... and to fix it "right" they would need the correct parts to fit "right" . That said... yes it would be nice to be able to get your upper back ASAP... but if they are waiting on parts... PLEASE just say so. We have all had delays with PSA... but, I shudder to think where we would be without them .. ( apart from considerable wealthier... Lol ) I am not trying to sound flippant at all... but grin and bear it. IMHO, In the end you will be happy. I would like to know figures on how many uppers and etc.. PSA ships and builds every month ( or week ?! ) |
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[#3]
Well, I don't think I would say screwed. But the wait does suck.
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[#4]
I wouldn't have even bothered to send it back. It would take all of 10 minutes and a $2 part to just replace it yourself
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[#5]
OK. Thanks for the replies. I will keep waiting.
As for fixing it myself...I'd have to remove the flash hider, knock out the FSB pins and remove the FSB then the cap. I don't have any handguard caps and PSA doesn't sell them. At least I couldn't find them without the whole kit included. Who sells that shit and how do I know what size I need? Then, what if the barrel is not machined to spec? I have never built an upper. Lowers, yes, many but no uppers. I have fixed minor problems before, like FSB pins halfway out or loose flash hiders, but I'm not a smith. And this is a new (non-blem) item. What if I actually needed this upper for a 3-gun match or as prep for the Irma Hurricane apocalypse?!? |
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[#6]
You can get handguard caps for $4 from White Oak Armament and you'd need a new crush washer for the flash hider also. If you have a standard barrel(not pencil profile)it's .750 at the gas block. I guess a guy has to determine if they want to get the repair done for free and take the chance of waiting a long time or eating the repair cost and do it themselves.
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[#7]
Should've cut it up and put a new free-float on it using a standard barrel nut.
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[#8]
Quoted:
Now, it's Sept 8 and over a month later, still no upper. After my e-mail asking WTF, they responded with " We have received further correspondence from the repair team, stating with their current queue, repairs will be around forty business days from the point of arrival". Am I being told to go f#*% myself? View Quote I returned a rifle for 'repair'. It took 8 weeks for it to get looked at - they offered a replacement which I accepted - that was two weeks ago. Still no word. SO - yes the 'repair' que appears to be easily 40 days (business days) and the order-to-ship delay is the full 10-15 days (business days) that they claim, which includes 'repairs'. |
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[#9]
This summer I purchased a PSA upper complete with bcg / ch. There was an issue which appeared to have been something wrong in the machining process (more than cosmetic). Returned it and received the new or repaired upper (with the other original upper parts) last week 2-3 days short of 6 weeks turnaround. Though a tad long for my sometimes impatience, I can understand delays to an extent. No biggie. I must say the first upper mated with my non-PSA lower as though the two were welded together. Perfect fit. The "new" upper has between 0.010"-0.012" of slop. Not a show stopper but disappointing. Reminds me of several I had in the military however they were typically worse. Not doing another 6 weeks or so.
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[#10]
I shipped my barreled action back 7/7/17 and they said they received it 8/3. I received it back 9/11/17.
I'd wish for a little quicker return, but if it is actually fixed, I won't hold that against them. |
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[#11]
It's not the end of the world. Especially since it is not just me.
Maybe PSA has too many coals in the fire. With the pistol cal. rifles, the .308 and 7.62X39 rifles that may have teething problems that require more CS returns, hence the long wait times. After dozens and dozens of orders, other than a rough BCG, I have never returned anything before. |
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[#12]
Quoted:
I wouldn't have even bothered to send it back. It would take all of 10 minutes and a $2 part to just replace it yourself View Quote |
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[#13]
Quoted:
One has to wonder if the FSB was pinned properly to the gas hole. That is the only way I could think that the cap would be lose if the FSB was not in the proper position. View Quote If it's not just a simple replacement of the cap...rather than butchering by upper (and having me just sent it the fuck back for good) why not just send me another upper. I half expect it to come back with the original cap welded to the barrel! They were on sale again so they obviously have them in stock. I purchased something in good faith and my money was good yet I did not get what they promised. I guess I can see why many people just pay more for BCM or whatever name brand. |
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[#14]
If you can provide your order number to me in an IM, I'd be happy to investigate your repair.
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[#15]
Thanks everyone.
The upper has finally arrived!!! After waiting 2 months. Very exciting. I even made plans to make it out to the range tomorrow... Unfortunately, aside from a few new nicks and scratches, the upper is FUBAR like before. The handguard cap slides freely just as before. I don't know what, if anything was done with the upper. If they replaced the cap, then the barrel itself is the issue. I would have thought that after 2 months at the CS repair Dept, someone could have noticed that the handguards move around. You can hold the upper by the handguard, shake it and it flops around. And no, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT A LOOSE HANDGUARD since I know that most if not all plastic handguards have some play. The metal tab (cap) that sits against the FSB and holds the front of the handguard is loose. IT'S LOOOOOSE!!!I planned to mount a Troy rail to it and mount my OTAL-C IR laser. But I cannot zero a laser if the rail has 30 MOA movement!!! To PSA, the order# is 32102952002. I emailed the CS Dept. asked for a return label and refund. |
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[#16]
Quoted:
Thanks everyone. The upper has finally arrived!!! After waiting 2 months. Very exciting. I even made plans to make it out to the range tomorrow... Unfortunately, aside from a few new nicks and scratches, the upper is FUBAR like before. The handguard cap slides freely just as before. I don't know what, if anything was done with the upper. If they replaced the cap, then the barrel itself is the issue. I would have thought that after 2 months at the CS repair Dept, someone could have noticed that the handguards move around. You can hold the upper by the handguard, shake it and it flops around. And no, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT A LOOSE HANDGUARD since I know that most if not all plastic handguards have some play. The metal tab (cap) that sits against the FSB and holds the front of the handguard is loose. IT'S LOOOOOSE!!!I planned to mount a Troy rail to it and mount my OTAL-C IR laser. But I cannot zero a laser if the rail has 30 MOA movement!!! To PSA, the order# is 32102952002. I emailed the CS Dept. asked for a return label and refund. View Quote |
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[#17]
Can you post some pictures? I'm still really confused how it can be that loose.
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[#18]
I don't think I can post pics with my poor-man account. It would need to be a video anyway to show the movement.
The handguard cap is the thin, circular, metal plate that goes up against the FSB (front sight base). It's maybe 1.5" across. It has small tabs on it which hook over the plastic "A2" style handguards and holds the handguard halves to the upper. This circular metal cap is solid without any movement on all my other rifles. But on this upper, the cap moves up and down and side to side. So, the handguards (or my Troy rails) will also move up/down etc in relation to the barrel. So, imagine the barrel in a vice, immobilized, yet the handguards can move freely about 1/4 inch. So, any drop-in rails like my Troys will move around. Any optics, lasers, etc attached to the rail/handguards will move, in relation to the barrel. Kinda like a loose steering wheel of a car which turns freely without turning the tires. |
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[#19]
Sorry to hear you are having this issue, on top of sending it back and then receiving it again after two months in the same condition. I know that must be super frustrating.
I know this sounds kind of odd, and some might even laugh... but if you can't get another call-tag and replacement or refund from PSA, and you don't want to remove the FSB and replace the handguard retainer bracket, take and clean/degrease that area good with acetone or other degreaser, and position the retainer where you want it, and take come liquid superglue and pour it into the area around the HG retainer, particularly between the FSB and retainer. Let it dry for 15 minutes or so and do it again. It will harden and secure the retainer plate in place, and may secure it well. If it does, it's possible the heat from use may cause it to get loose again, but at least you tried something to fix it. Another suggestion is to take it to a local gun-smith and explain to them your situation and ask them to remove the FSB and install a new HG retainer bracket for you. I doubt they'd charge an arm and a leg. Heck, after all you've been through, it's worth a try. I did this with a loose upper handgurad on an SKS and it's tight as Dick's hat-band now, and heat from shooting doesn't seem to affect it... :-) Good luck! |
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[#20]
I wouldn't be gluing it. That upper would be going back, unless I had plans for a free float rail. In that case I'd have it done locally, or do it myself. Palmetto State Armory needs to take care of that problem for you. I'd be livid if my rifle came back not fixed, with such an obvious problem.
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[#21]
I'm sure there are "haji-engineer" methods I could use to try to immobilize that cap. But I shouldn't have to weld, solder, epoxy parts on a new rifle to get it to work. When the barrel heats up, it would probably do something unexpected. Plus, I'm theorizing that the barrel itself is machined just slightly out of spec leaving too much room between the cap and FSB. Which could lead to other issues down the road. I havnt even fired one shot so who knows. What if it the gas hole doesn't line up properly under the FSB!!?? If I or some gunsmith start monkeying with it, the warranty would be screwed.
I'm very confident that PSA will take care of me. They always have in the past. But I lost my confidence in the repair dept. |
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[#22]
Quoted:
I'm sure there are "haji-engineer" methods I could use to try to immobilize that cap. But I shouldn't have to weld, solder, epoxy parts on a new rifle to get it to work. When the barrel heats up, it would probably do something unexpected. Plus, I'm theorizing that the barrel itself is machined just slightly out of spec leaving too much room between the cap and FSB. Which could lead to other issues down the road. I havnt even fired one shot so who knows. What if it the gas hole doesn't line up properly under the FSB!!?? If I or some gunsmith start monkeying with it, the warranty would be screwed. I'm very confident that PSA will take care of me. They always have in the past. But I lost my confidence in the repair dept. View Quote PSA makes decent products for the price, but if you can't do some tinkering and/or repair yourself, and have to send everything back to them, you'll need a lot of patience, tolerance and a high irritation threshold. Judging from what I read on this forum, PSA seems to be getting a lot of warranty returns which extends the turnaround time for the customer; hence, a lot of patience is needed. Good luck! |
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[#23]
Quoted:
OK. Thanks for the replies. I will keep waiting. As for fixing it myself...I'd have to remove the flash hider, knock out the FSB pins and remove the FSB then the cap. I don't have any handguard caps and PSA doesn't sell them. At least I couldn't find them without the whole kit included. Who sells that shit and how do I know what size I need? Then, what if the barrel is not machined to spec? I have never built an upper. Lowers, yes, many but no uppers. I have fixed minor problems before, like FSB pins halfway out or loose flash hiders, but I'm not a smith. And this is a new (non-blem) item. What if I actually needed this upper for a 3-gun match or as prep for the Irma Hurricane apocalypse?!? View Quote |
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[#24]
Quoted:
I don't think I can post pics with my poor-man account. It would need to be a video anyway to show the movement. The handguard cap is the thin, circular, metal plate that goes up against the FSB (front sight base). It's maybe 1.5" across. It has small tabs on it which hook over the plastic "A2" style handguards and holds the handguard halves to the upper. This circular metal cap is solid without any movement on all my other rifles. But on this upper, the cap moves up and down and side to side. So, the handguards (or my Troy rails) will also move up/down etc in relation to the barrel. So, imagine the barrel in a vice, immobilized, yet the handguards can move freely about 1/4 inch. So, any drop-in rails like my Troys will move around. Any optics, lasers, etc attached to the rail/handguards will move, in relation to the barrel. Kinda like a loose steering wheel of a car which turns freely without turning the tires. View Quote |
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[#25]
The barrel looks to be a standard M4 profile, just like my Colt 6920.
I'm dying to know exactly what the problem is. The cap, barrel, or something else. It's these little problems that can be the most irritating. |
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[#26]
You really get what you pay for with PSA.
I purchased a 7.5" complete upper with Mlok handguard and received an upper with a Keymod handguard. I emailed PSA to notify them of the fact, asking how they were going to make it right and they ignored me and updated their website to reflect the keymod handguard. I of course kept a screenshot of it when the same ad was for the Mlok. Still, never got any response. |
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[#28]
I'm still waiting patiently for a return label, refund, or anything encouraging...
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[#29]
Is it loose vertical, horizontal, or both of the barrel? I have seen stripped barrels for sale different places that are cut down below the .750" depth at the step right where the handguard cap would go. It did not appear you could put a handguard cap on them without it being loose.
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[#30]
Quoted:
I'm still waiting patiently for a return label, refund, or anything encouraging... View Quote If I were you, I would IM the PSA rep here and ask him what's the next step in getting your issue resolved (the second time around). While you're waiting on the PSA rep here on the AR15.com forum, I'd go ahead and give PSA CS a call, and be prepared to wait the 30/45 minutes, or whatever, to talk to someone at PSA. Put your phone on speaker, and do something else while you are waiting, while monitoring the phone. If they hang up on you, call again and wait to talk to a live person. Once you get them on the phone, don't end the call until you talk to a supervisor or someone with authority to handle your issue/send a call tag or whatever. You are going to have to be pro-active to get the results you want. You don't have to be loud, rude, hateful or ugly, just pro-active and don't take no for an answer. Good luck! |
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[#31]
A six week repair timeframe tells me they have a pile of stuff needing attention.
You get what you pay for. |
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[#32]
Out of the many uppers purchased, I had an upper sent back for having a blem on rail surface when purchased as a non blem. PSA paid for ship and r/r with turnaround in a week not including shipping. Could be that the additional wait has to do with turnaround with repair staff and hiring.
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[#33]
PSA sent me a return label and I returned it for a refund. My theory is that something is off with the barrel profile.
So far, CS has been fine. I think that a large part of the problem is the fact that a loose handguard cap is a strange and unusual issue. I don't think they believed me and probably though I was a noob complaining about the plastic handguard having some play, which they all do. I would have liked to keep that upper. It was a good deal. Maybe the last of the CHF uppers for a while. But not if it's spec's are off and cant be fixed. |
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[#34]
Quoted:
PSA sent me a return label and I returned it for a refund. My theory is that something is off with the barrel profile. So far, CS has been fine. I think that a large part of the problem is the fact that a loose handguard cap is a strange and unusual issue. I don't think they believed me and probably though I was a noob complaining about the plastic handguard having some play, which they all do. I would have liked to keep that upper. It was a good deal. Maybe the last of the CHF uppers for a while. But not if it's spec's are off and cant be fixed. View Quote Sorry to hear you didn't get what you truly wanted. |
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