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They really didn't say anything of substance. View Quote |
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I will never understand why people love listening to some guy who is good with a camera and editing. He is just a man with an opinion like everyone else. No more no less. This hanging on every word some guy on the internet says is honestly really pathetic.
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What’s sad, is how far this conversation is from those hopes of national reciprocity and suppressor liberation. All three branches are under republican control and this is where we are? It’s time to vote out some swamp donkeys.
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My initial reaction to this topic was pretty much "F the NRA" when I read the (highlighted in red) comment above. With some of the smoke now clearing, and having had time to think this through... It really comes down to the points Sylvan made above. While most of the public doesn't know the technical difference between semi-auto fire, and full-auto fire... They can equate the rate of fire heard in Las Vegas with the rate of fire heard in the movies they watch. Perception becomes reality. Of course, the press has informed them that the now-infamous Bump Fire Stock is what allowed the shooter to mow people down with such a high rate of fire. So the public is aware of that, and the majority of them would like to see it removed. I also understand the thinking of the "not one more inch" crowd. The fear is if the Bump-Fire Stock is made illegal due to this shooting, that they'll come after something else after the next big shooting, and the next, and the next, etc... etc... etc... Until all our gun rights are gone. The question I'd pose to these people is, do you really believe that the NRA would back down from a fight if the .gov tried to ban, say... all semi-auto rifles? I just can't see it. To the average American non shooter, and some who are shooters, fully automatic machine guns should not be allowed for public use. Period. Any tool or gadget which allows a gun to be fired like a machine gun, shouldn't be allowed either. That is their view. For clarification, I personally believe that the NFA is unconstitutional. We should be allowed to have "any terrible implement of the soldier" for our use. However, if you asked the vast majority of Americans, they would strongly disagree with my view. They are wrong, but that doesn't matter, because it's the reality of the landscape we find ourselves in. View Quote And if Wayne and Chris had only gone that far, I'd have no issue with them. But, they didn't only go that far. They left the door wide open for the DC Commies to ram anything they can come up with down our throats. And with the help of several cuck Rs, they just might succeed. All while the Rs will point to the NRA, and say they supported it. Plain and simple, Wayne LaPierre and Chris Cox have to go. Yes, I know, it will be difficult to find suitable replacements. Keep something in mind: Maybe, just maybe, the DC Commies will see us kick out Wayne and Chris and realize just how serious we are. |
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What did they offer up? "Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations." ATF to review whether the devices comply with federal law (bumpstocks do). The NRA believes devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like FA (bumpstocks don't) should be subject to additional regulations (FAs already are, and more). They really didn't say anything of substance. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why does everyone assume that legislation must be passed? Legislation was proposed after Sandy Hook and made it nowhere. And that was kids. Vegas was a bunch of country loving Trump supporters. Legislation was always going to be proposed, with or without Vegas, with or without Sandy Hook. That doesn't mean it was ever going to go anywhere. People acknowledge that guns are dangerous and bad people do bad things. but full auto is different in the mind of the public, for good or bad. "Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations." ATF to review whether the devices comply with federal law (bumpstocks do). The NRA believes devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like FA (bumpstocks don't) should be subject to additional regulations (FAs already are, and more). They really didn't say anything of substance. You and I know that bump stocks do not really change rifles into machine guns. Soccer moms don't understand this. |
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I get what you're saying, but the NRA would have been smart to hold off and see which way the wind was blowing before they offered up anything. View Quote |
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if you couldn't predict what was going to happen in congress 10 seconds after you saw the video, you have no business in the business of fighting gun control. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I get what you're saying, but the NRA would have been smart to hold off and see which way the wind was blowing before they offered up anything. Please read some of your insults. Sounds just like a liberal Your not read enough to speak about this, your a child throwing a tantrum Same thing liberals say when they can't win an argument, resort to insults |
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So we are just all children? We have no business talking? Please read some of your insults. Sounds just like a liberal Your not read enough to speak about this, your a child throwing a tantrum Same thing liberals say when they can't win an argument, result to insults View Quote I am absolutely correct in what I said. If you couldn't predict the actions of Feinstein et al after seeing the videos of what happened in vegas, you have no business opining on any of this. If the idea that congress would try to shove a gun control bill down our throats as fast of possible never occurred to you, you are an abject moron on the subject. You are throwing the tantrum because you are incapable of seeing anything beyond the Navy SEAL posters in your basement. |
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If you take insult, that is your problem, not mine. I am absolutely correct in what I said. If you couldn't predict the actions of Feinstein et al after seeing the videos of what happened in vegas, you have no business opining on any of this. If the idea that congress would try to shove a gun control bill down our throats as fast of possible never occurred to you, you are an abject moron on the subject. You are throwing the tantrum because you are incapable of seeing anything beyond the Navy SEAL posters in your basement. View Quote Ok dude |
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You know, if you could read as well as you could fling shit like an agitated monkey, you might make it through middle school. You are attributing an opinion to me when what I clearly stated was the majority of Americans. View Quote I mean, "Sylvan_A" has a pretty good ring to it, man. Either that or some Prozac would do you a world of good. |
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....One point here....WE know what the definition of 'full auto' is, according to the BATF and WE know what it takes to actually own such an animal....WE also know that a bumpstock doesn't make a semiauto a full auto by that definition....
...but the general public doesn't....THEY hear and understand that the addition of a bumpstock to a semiauto equates to the same rate of fire (with reasonable variation based on the skill of the person)....THEY don't understand the difference in accurate and rapid fire, THEY just know 'a lot of bullets hitting a lot of people really, really fast'.... ....THEY also never considered ammonium nitrate dangerous either....until it was mixed with diesel fuel and loaded in the back of a UHaul truck....Prior to that, it wasn't as regulated as it is today, even though there were people who used ANFO regularly and knew all about it....Explaining that it was an inert fertilizer did no good.... ....The point is even if the entire firearm owning population of the US agreed that bumpstocks were harmless, the general public, THEY, disagree...Combine Suzy Homemaker and Steve Workerbee, who have never owned a firearm but have no wish to restrict others from owning them with the rabid grabbers and you have a tidal wave of opinion that washes over any 'but it doesn't meet the BATF definition' argument...THEY just know that it makes a semi automatic rifle a fully automatic rifle (the results are the same=they are the same).... |
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Does ARFCOM lifer status entitle you to a name change? I mean, "Sylvan_A" has a pretty good ring to it, man. Either that or some Prozac would do you a world of good. View Quote I don't need more prozak, I need less stupidity out of ARFCOM. Tragically I see neither in my future? "shooting in Vegas? What shooting? Fuck that shit. Molon Labe mother fuckers" |
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Mark is rethinking the GD thing. View Quote I mean cahmon. The more I read the statement the more I feel that you are basically thumbing your nose saying that if my garden hose sprayed bullets it should be banned. I just want to hear you say that you were making a joke so I can continue to love you ....... |
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....One point here....WE know what the definition of 'full auto' is, according to the BATF and WE know what it takes to actually own such an animal....WE also know that a bumpstock doesn't make a semiauto a full auto by that definition.... ...but the general public doesn't....THEY hear and understand that the addition of a bumpstock to a semiauto equates to the same rate of fire (with reasonable variation based on the skill of the person)....THEY don't understand the difference in accurate and rapid fire, THEY just know 'a lot of bullets hitting a lot of people really, really fast'.... ....THEY also never considered ammonium nitrate dangerous either....until it was mixed with diesel fuel and loaded in the back of a UHaul truck....Prior to that, it wasn't as regulated as it is today, even though there were people who used ANFO regularly and knew all about it....Explaining that it was an inert fertilizer did no good.... ....The point is even if the entire firearm owning population of the US agreed that bumpstocks were harmless, the general public, THEY, disagree...Combine Suzy Homemaker and Steve Workerbee, who have never owned a firearm but have no wish to restrict others from owning them with the rabid grabbers and you have a tidal wave of opinion that washes over any 'but it doesn't meet the BATF definition' argument...THEY just know that it makes a semi automatic rifle a fully automatic rifle (the results are the same=they are the same).... View Quote And Lord knows Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnel are unwavering supporters of the literal interpretation of the Constitution. We had no threat of gun control until the NRA opened their mouths. But what else can you expect from those gun grabbing fudds? |
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if you couldn't predict what was going to happen in congress 10 seconds after you saw the video, you have no business in the business of fighting gun control. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I get what you're saying, but the NRA would have been smart to hold off and see which way the wind was blowing before they offered up anything. |
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http://celebmafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/samantha-fox-celebrity-big-brother-lauch-in-hertfordshire-7-28-2016-6.jpg Shine on you crazy diamond! View Quote I'd still hit it |
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We had no threat of gun control until the NRA opened their mouths. But what else can you expect from those gun grabbing fudds? View Quote |
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No, it doesn't. And closing your eyes and pretending it isn't going anywhere doesn't mean it isn't, either. So, you trust Paul Ryan or Wayne LaPierre on this one? Choose carefully. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Gun control. The NRA said they were ok with regulating, and that's where the public stopped listening. Just like the masses think that bump fire is full auto, they're not paying attention to the specifics of what LaPierre said. He said the NRA is ok with regulating guns is what they heard, and that's what they're now going to try to do and they're going to claim that they have the approval of the NRA to do it.
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Gun control. The NRA said they were ok with regulating, and that's where the public stopped listening. Just like the masses think that bump fire is full auto, they're not paying attention to the specifics of what LaPierre said. He said the NRA is ok with regulating guns is what they heard, and that's what they're now going to try to do and they're going to claim that they have the approval of the NRA to do it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The threat is always there. The threat will always be there. But the threat didn't have the implied approval of the NRA until they opened their mouths. be specific. |
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No, I don't. But using "OMG this was bad, just bad graphics for the Second Amendment" as your barometer of what's going to pass isn't exactly brilliant either. View Quote What I do know is that I want the NRA involved in every step of it if possible. Of the major gun bills, from 1934 to 1994, to FOPA (1968 they fucked up) the NRA made the follow on laws far less onerous than they would have been without the NRA. the NRA is not the SCOTS and it is not congress. They can not pass laws nor rule on their constitutionality. what they can do is speak for gun owners as an implicit threat against congressmen. 90% of gun owners think full auto should be banned. Again, you can ignore reality. but you cannot ignore the repercussions of ignoring reality. If you think the NRA fucked up by releasing their statement, fine. I disagree, but whatever. But if your argument is that they did it because they are all secret fudd gun banners who just want more money by generating fear, you are a fucktard who shouldn't be allowed on a tricycle without a helmet. |
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If you take insult, that is your problem, not mine. I am absolutely correct in what I said. If you couldn't predict the actions of Feinstein et al after seeing the videos of what happened in vegas, you have no business opining on any of this. If the idea that congress would try to shove a gun control bill down our throats as fast of possible never occurred to you, you are an abject moron on the subject. You are throwing the tantrum because you are incapable of seeing anything beyond the Navy SEAL posters in your basement. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So we are just all children? We have no business talking? Please read some of your insults. Sounds just like a liberal Your not read enough to speak about this, your a child throwing a tantrum Same thing liberals say when they can't win an argument, result to insults I am absolutely correct in what I said. If you couldn't predict the actions of Feinstein et al after seeing the videos of what happened in vegas, you have no business opining on any of this. If the idea that congress would try to shove a gun control bill down our throats as fast of possible never occurred to you, you are an abject moron on the subject. You are throwing the tantrum because you are incapable of seeing anything beyond the Navy SEAL posters in your basement. What we couldn't predict, was that she would do it while, at the same time, being able to claim that she has the backing of the NRA. |
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Gun control. The NRA said they were ok with regulating, and that's where the public stopped listening. Just like the masses think that bump fire is full auto, they're not paying attention to the specifics of what LaPierre said. He said the NRA is ok with regulating guns is what they heard, and that's what they're now going to try to do and they're going to claim that they have the approval of the NRA to do it. View Quote Now they don't. and when the NRA quashes the bill it won't be because "NRA wants full auto in kindgergardens!" The only thing they'll remember is "NRA said they were cool with it so I guess it was all fucked up or something" You have your theory, I have mine. At this point we are going to see how it plays out. But don't think for a fucking second nothing was gonna happen until the NRA opened their mouth. |
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I'm sorry. Must have missed that. NRA endorsed Feinstein's bill? You got a link for that? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Bump stocks and “pistol” brace ARs are both dumb IMO. Seems like the equivalent of poking a bear with a flaming stick while you’re covered in gasoline.
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Again, you can ignore reality. but you cannot ignore the repercussions of ignoring reality. If you think the NRA fucked up by releasing their statement, fine. View Quote They could have easily made a statement denouncing the actions of a mad man and pushing for better mental health care in this country immediately after the event. Then they quietly go to work with politicians to assess what the actual damage might be and work to minimize that. What they shouldn't have done was publicly state that they were ok with regulations. |
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I'm sorry. Must have missed that. NRA endorsed Feinstein's bill? You got a link for that? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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- Insert typical MSM voiced reported here - "Mark, Mark, Mark .... can we get a statement?" I mean cahmon. The more I read the statement the more I feel that you are basically thumbing your nose saying that if my garden hose sprayed bullets it should be banned. I just want to hear you say that you were making a joke so I can continue to love you ....... View Quote In regards to the 2nd Amendment and the NRA … I have been told so and I understand that I am not the most eloquent person in the world, and I have rubbed a few folks the wrong way. I have failed to properly espouse my stance and some have misunderstood what I tried to convey. So let me clearly state my beliefs in simple words so there is no misunderstanding. I am staunchly Pro 2nd Amendment, I am staunchly Pro Bumpfire stocks and I am staunchly against any moves to limit Our Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Period. I stand firmly with my fellow Americans, fellow shooters, gun collectors, hunters, home defenders, et al, against any regulations on the 2nd Amendment. Period. My life is fully committed to this, and the great country which has allowed me, and you, to prosper. I also believe we must work inside and through the NRA to safeguard our freedoms and liberty. We must work to reform the NRA, so that it fully reflects the beliefs of its members. We must give no ground to those who would strip our liberty and freedom from us. I am fully committed to this fight. We fight not just for ourselves, but for our children, grandchildren, and generations of Americans to come. We must be united together in this fight. There can be no step backwards, only forward. Mark LaRue LaRue Tactical |
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I have no idea what is going to pass, if anything What I do know is that I want the NRA involved in every step of it if possible. Of the major gun bills, from 1934 to 1994, to FOPA (1968 they fucked up) the NRA made the follow on laws far less onerous than they would have been without the NRA. the NRA is not the SCOTS and it is not congress. They can not pass laws nor rule on their constitutionality. what they can do is speak for gun owners as an implicit threat against congressmen. 90% of gun owners think full auto should be banned. Again, you can ignore reality. but you cannot ignore the repercussions of ignoring reality. If you think the NRA fucked up by releasing their statement, fine. I disagree, but whatever. But if your argument is that they did it because they are all secret fudd gun banners who just want more money by generating fear, you are a fucktard who shouldn't be allowed on a tricycle without a helmet. View Quote Because nearly every single gun owner I know who have ever talked to disagrees. The 2nd isn’t about your retarded bench shooting, hunting, bumpfire mag dumping etc. It was about killing corrupt governments. The NRA should have shut their god damn mouths. It was fucking stupid for them to comment on bump stocks just a couple days after the shooting, when we STILL don’t know the full story. Please do tell, all you “adults” what the NRA has actually done over the past 100 years for gun owners? Because all I’ve ever seen them do is ask for money and shit on the actual purpose of the 2nd. And there’s literally dozens of recorded quotes from their leadership proving just that. Which is why, like Mark and many others, I believe the NRA needs a massive change in leadership. Period. |
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I'm not ignoring reality. I understand that there can be repercussions. You seem oblivious to the repercussions of what the NRA said. I do want them involved every step of the way. What I don't want them doing is implying that they're ok with gun control. You don't voluntarily hand your adversary a victory, no matter how small, you do that reluctantly when it's the only option. They could have easily made a statement denouncing the actions of a mad man and pushing for better mental health care in this country immediately after the event. Then they quietly go to work with politicians to assess what the actual damage might be and work to minimize that. What they shouldn't have done was publicly state that they were ok with regulations. View Quote the sandy hook playbook doesn't work this time. You don't get video of what sounds like full auto shooting hundreds of people and talk about mental illness. Especially when it appears the guy who didn't wasn't mentally ill. the NRA's position, and the position of the vast majority of NRA members (not to mention americans in general) is that full auto should be regulated. Now, you don't like that? Fine as well. But GOA is worthless as anything but a money making scheme for the Pratt family. Again. This is reality now. We have won the public perception war on ARs. WE haven't on ARs. The issue here is full auto and whether you blame a gun or a stock. choose carefully |
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Let me know how MAC is going to pick that apart ... I attempted to make it dick-simple. ML |
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I also believe we must work inside and through the NRA to safeguard our freedoms and liberty. We must work to reform the NRA, so that it fully reflects the beliefs of its members. We must give no ground to those who would strip our liberty and freedom from us. I am fully committed to this fight. We fight not just for ourselves, but for our children, grandchildren, and generations of Americans to come. We must be united together in this fight. There can be no step backwards, only forward. View Quote |
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Where are you getting “90% of gun owners believe full auto should be banned”? Because nearly every single gun owner I know who have ever talked to disagrees. The 2nd isn’t about your retarded bench shooting, hunting, bumpfire mag dumping etc. It was about killing corrupt governments. The NRA should have shut their god damn mouths. It was fucking stupid for them to comment on bump stocks just a couple days after the shooting, when we STILL don’t know the full story. Please do tell, all you “adults” what the NRA has actually done over the past 100 years for gun owners? Because all I’ve ever seen them do is ask for money and shit on the actual purpose of the 2nd. And there’s literally dozens of recorded quotes from their leadership proving just that. Which is why, like Mark and many others, I believe the NRA needs a massive change in leadership. Period. View Quote I could stop at the sunset provision in the 1994 AWB, but that was probably when you were in diapers. Did you ever read the testimony for the 1934 NFA? Did you read the original bill before Fredrick's testimony? Now, I may not be "operator as fuck" but I must ask what the fuck have you done? |
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Sylvan, Let me know how MAC is going to pick that apart ... I attempted to make it dick-simple. ML View Quote |
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And here ya go ... In regards to the 2nd Amendment and the NRA … I have been told so and I understand that I am not the most eloquent person in the world, and I have rubbed a few folks the wrong way. I have failed to properly espouse my stance and some have misunderstood what I tried to convey. So let me clearly state my beliefs in simple words so there is no misunderstanding. I am staunchly Pro 2nd Amendment, I am staunchly Pro Bumpfire stocks and I am staunchly against any moves to limit Our Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Period. I stand firmly with my fellow Americans, fellow shooters, gun collectors, hunters, home defenders, et al, against any regulations on the 2nd Amendment. Period. My life is fully committed to this, and the great country which has allowed me, and you, to prosper. I also believe we must work inside and through the NRA to safeguard our freedoms and liberty. We must work to reform the NRA, so that it fully reflects the beliefs of its members. We must give no ground to those who would strip our liberty and freedom from us. I am fully committed to this fight. We fight not just for ourselves, but for our children, grandchildren, and generations of Americans to come. We must be united together in this fight. There can be no step backwards, only forward. Mark LaRue LaRue Tactical View Quote |
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I'm sorry for shitting all over your industry forum. This bickering is stupid and the only people benefiting from a bunch of fucktards on ARFCOM is liberals and Bloomberg. Wouldn't they love a fractured NRA? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Sylvan, Let me know how MAC is going to pick that apart ... I attempted to make it dick-simple. ML ML |
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You are ignoring reality. the sandy hook playbook doesn't work this time. You don't get video of what sounds like full auto shooting hundreds of people and talk about mental illness. Especially when it appears the guy who didn't wasn't mentally ill. the NRA's position, and the position of the vast majority of NRA members (not to mention americans in general) is that full auto should be regulated. Now, you don't like that? Fine as well. But GOA is worthless as anything but a money making scheme for the Pratt family. Again. This is reality now. We have won the public perception war on ARs. WE haven't on ARs. The issue here is full auto and whether you blame a gun or a stock. choose carefully View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'm not ignoring reality. I understand that there can be repercussions. You seem oblivious to the repercussions of what the NRA said. I do want them involved every step of the way. What I don't want them doing is implying that they're ok with gun control. You don't voluntarily hand your adversary a victory, no matter how small, you do that reluctantly when it's the only option. They could have easily made a statement denouncing the actions of a mad man and pushing for better mental health care in this country immediately after the event. Then they quietly go to work with politicians to assess what the actual damage might be and work to minimize that. What they shouldn't have done was publicly state that they were ok with regulations. the sandy hook playbook doesn't work this time. You don't get video of what sounds like full auto shooting hundreds of people and talk about mental illness. Especially when it appears the guy who didn't wasn't mentally ill. the NRA's position, and the position of the vast majority of NRA members (not to mention americans in general) is that full auto should be regulated. Now, you don't like that? Fine as well. But GOA is worthless as anything but a money making scheme for the Pratt family. Again. This is reality now. We have won the public perception war on ARs. WE haven't on ARs. The issue here is full auto and whether you blame a gun or a stock. choose carefully For the record, I'm firmly against the GOA and NAGR. They'll never see a dollar from me. I realize the need for incrementally gaining back 2A freedoms, it took decades to erode them, it will take years to regain them. I'm not anti-NRA. But I have every right to be critical of the NRA. I fully realize that they are the 800 lb gorilla and they are our best chance for keeping gun rights intact. I also fully realize that they stepped on their dick this time. I'm not calling for people to quit the NRA, even the day they made their statement I cautioned people against leaving. You can't effect change from an organization you don't belong to. |
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Of course they didn't directly. But you're the one that's oblivious if you don't think that the masses see their statement as endorsement for gun control. View Quote Most people aren't. Most gun owners aren't. The strength of the NRA is the perception that they represent all gun owners. if this is a quest for the perfect, we could give money to the Pratt Family Foundation. But it won't help our gun rights. |
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I could stop at the sunset provision in the 1994 AWB, but that was probably when you were in diapers. Did you ever read the testimony for the 1934 NFA? Did you read the original bill before Fredrick's testimony? Now, I may not be "operator as fuck" but I must ask what the fuck have you done? View Quote Secondly, I’ve voted and bitched to my reps. Dosent change the fact that what the NRA has done after Vegas was weapons grade stupid. It wasn’t genius. It wasn’t “playing the long game”. It was just plain stupid. Not to mention insulting the to victims. We still don’t even know what the true motive was. |
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lol wat? Our boot may have been on their collective necks before Vegas, but that shooting introduced some additional variables into the equation. How can you not see that? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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