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Posted: 6/7/2003 12:59:19 PM EDT
Hi all, I was watching BHD for the umpteenth time and it occured to me that I don't know what the hand signals used by the Delta Operators mean. I've scoured the search engines. I even dug out my old copy of FM21-60. So far no joy. Anyone know where I can find info or perhaps a manual? I'm particularly curious about the squawking bird signal! TIA, Gary
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 12:49:20 AM EDT
Probably fake ass crap made up by the director cuz it looks cool on film. For example... I've often watched modern war movies where some actor uses the pointing to one's eyes with two fingers as meaning he sees the enemy. The way I learned it in the Army is you point your index finger towards the direction of the enemy with the thumb point down. While, IIRC (its been a long time), the pointing of two fingers to your eyes means calling up rear security when crossing danger areas.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 7:03:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Methos: Probably fake ass crap made up by the director cuz it looks cool on film. For example... I've often watched modern war movies where some actor uses the pointing to one's eyes with two fingers as meaning he sees the enemy. [red]The way I learned it in the Army is you point your index finger towards the direction of the enemy with the thumb point down.[/red] While, IIRC (its been a long time), the pointing of two fingers to your eyes means calling up rear security when crossing danger areas.
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Interesting. If the enemy is in sight, a Marine will put his weapon in his shoulder and point it at the enemy, then holding his free hand by his head, he will extend 1 finger for every 100m of range. Quite a bit of difference between the two services methods in this case.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 9:28:12 AM EDT
Methos: You may be right about the Hollywood factor but I've seen signals like those shown in BHD used in other flix. Either there is some form of standardized signaling or those Hollyweird guys are comparing notes. DPeacher: FM21-60 specifies shouldering the rifle to point to an enemy but doesn't have anything about indicating range. Sounds like a useful practice but shouldering an M16/M203 with one hand sounds kinda hard.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 10:08:19 AM EDT
Holding the rifle in your shoulder with one hand isn't that tough to do, even an M203. You would only have to do it for a few seconds, 5-10 at most. And if you are a 98 lb weakling you could always use your "trigger" hand to provide the range information. If the enemy is close enough to preclude having time to use hand and arm signals, then you are going to be shooting first, and EVERYONE will know you have the enemy in sight.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 10:09:26 AM EDT
Another way we did it, if you cant free your hand to render the hand signal, you simply point your weapon at the enemy direction and then while keeping it there, rotate your weapon so that your pistol grip up for a second.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:32:23 PM EDT
I wasn't a groundpounder, but was taught that besides the "standard" signals taught, units usually came up with their own SOPs. I was taught two fingers to the eyes were for near side security (calling it out or calling it in) when crossing danger areas (especially linear). If the enemy was in sight, then the first soldier to see would shoulder the weapon and freeze (like how a dog points when it spots game). Of course, YMMV. I remember seeing Saving Private Ryan and being amazed with the signals used by Pvt. Jackson (the sniper) from the tower when the Germans were coming. If they weren't real, they were surely good Hollywood. -Zmeja
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 4:19:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher: Holding the rifle in your shoulder with one hand isn't that tough to do, even an M203.
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I was just being cute. We had a guy who said that and got volunteered to demonstrate. He spent the better part of 30 minutes trying to hold an M203 to his shoulder by the pistol grip while the instructor explained how some things appear harder than they really are. Every time he started to sag the instructor would bitch at him mistaking ground hogs for the enemy. It was funny until one of us snickered and we spent the balance of the demonstration in the front leaning rest position.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 3:18:36 PM EDT
Thumb down or weapon inverted means enemy in sight. In MP school two fingers in a 'V' held up to both eyes ment 'your headlights should be on', or off depending on the light conditions. How someone is susposed to see me giving the signal at night in the dark is beyond me. Almost everyone else used the fingers to the eye as a 'look at this' jesture. Beleave it or not, the Boy Scouts of America came up with a hand signal for each letter of the alphabet. I was taught to use the pantomime for whatever weapon, (i.e. droping a round down a tube), followed by the number of meters to the weapon, followed by the symbol for the letter 'm'.
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