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Posted: 4/23/2003 12:22:32 PM EDT
Who likes 'em? I do. I first noticed them in photos from Afghanistan. Now I see them on the 3rd ID in Iraq. I even see that the 101'st has brought back the regimental insignias. I saw some guys with the clover leaf patch on their helmet covers. Though it was for the 327th Glider Infantry Regt. 101'st AB in WWII, they have resurrected it.
Link Posted: 4/23/2003 3:06:18 PM EDT
When I was in the 24th, we didn't have any unit patches on our Kevlar, just a "V" (For Victory Division) on each side. Personally I like the unit patch idea.
Link Posted: 4/23/2003 3:13:11 PM EDT
I think it depends on the division. I know 101st is using the regimental icons (my bro has a heart on his helmet). 3ID is apparently putting the DIV patch on the helmet. my NG unit has 7ID on the helmets, and 41SIB on the sleeve. for us, the helmet is a higher-unit designation.
Link Posted: 4/23/2003 6:30:01 PM EDT
Both the 101 ABN and the 3rd ID have historical reasons for their helmet insignias. I'm not for other units or for the army as a whole adopting this as standard.
Link Posted: 4/23/2003 9:35:26 PM EDT
I knew a guy in 4ID back in 1999 who had his ivy patch on his k-pot. He said it was SOP for his unit. FWIW, -Zmeja
Link Posted: 4/23/2003 10:57:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2003 11:29:04 PM EDT by Methos]
All infantry divisions that fought in WWI had their unit insignia painted on their helmets. In WWII, only some infantry divisions chose to have their division patch painted on their helmets ([url=http://www.steelpots.com/]steelpots.com[/url]). A number of infantry divisions had their combat brigades paint a regimental symbol on a side of their helmets. The following is an excerpt from an article explaining regimental symbols of the 101st Airborne Division in WWII. ----------------------------- [b]Helmet Stencils[/b] One of the distinctive forms of insignia worn by the 101st Airborne in WW2 was Helmet Stencils. After the chaos of an Airborne landing, with personnel of various sub units mixed together on the ground, quick assembly by units was essential for carrying out a mission. Symbols readily visible on helmets were expected to facilitate the re-assembly process. Each regiment and the support battalions had a symbol stenciled in white paint on the left and right side of the helmet. In England before the Normandy Invasion, these were first applied to the steel pots only. Later, stencils were also applied to helmet liners. Although some regimental stencils were applied without a battalion 'tic', a small dash was usually added at the 12 oclock, 3 oclock, 6 oclock, or 9 oclock positions, to designate battalions, in clockwise order. HQ was at the top, 1st Bn at the 3 oclock position, 2d battalion at the 6 oclock position, and 3rd Bn at the 9 oclock position. The Infantry regiments were represented by playing card symbols, Diamonds for 501, Hearts for 502, Spades for 506th, Clubs for the 327th Glider Infantry. Due to a foul-up the entire 3rd Bn of the 506th jumped into Normandy with their Bn tic in the 1st Bn position (3 oclock, instead of 9 oclock), This was corrected later in WW2. All units also utilized the standard ETO stencils of vertical and horizontal bars along the rear of the helmet for officers and non coms These markings were clear signals to enemy snipers and were sometimes covered or eliminated in combat. The members of divisional HQ wore a square stencil with tics to designate Signal Co., MPs, Ordinance, etc. [img]http://www.101airborneww2.com/Griswold.jpg[/img] Photo 1) depicts LTC George Griswold as commander of 3rd Bn 501 PIR in early 1945, wearing the diamond stencil with tic at 9 oclock. [img]http://www.101airborneww2.com/C502helmet.jpg[/img] Photo 2) depicts an unknown member of C/502 awaiting the postwar 'pay jump' at Auxerre, France in 1945. As with all 1st battalion helmets, the 'tic' appears at the 3 o'clock position in relation to the regimental symbol. Photo courtesy Frank Miller. [img]http://www.101airborneww2.com/Chief.jpg[/img] Photo 3) depicts "Chief", a Native American member of D/506th wearing spades with a tic at the 6 oclock position for 2d Bn. Photo c/o Louis Truax [url]http://www.101airborneww2.com/insignia3.html[/url] ------------------------ I couldn't find anything online about division patches on helmets after WWII.
Link Posted: 4/23/2003 11:39:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zmeja: I knew a guy in 4ID back in 1999 who had his ivy patch on his k-pot. He said it was SOP for his unit. FWIW, -Zmeja
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I saw an online picture the other day of a 4ID guy w/ it on his helmet. I think it was at www.army.mil, but don't remember for sure.
Link Posted: 4/23/2003 11:59:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DSVET91: When I was in the 24th, we didn't have any unit patches on our Kevlar, just a "V" (For Victory Division) on each side. Personally I like the unit patch idea.
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I think so too. However, IMO they should just allow the combat divisions. I wouldn't want to see every maintenance, air defense, MP, medical, or artillery patch on a helmet.
Link Posted: 4/24/2003 5:16:14 AM EDT
And I thought the Indian Head looked big on my shoulder! Holt shit it'd take up 1/2 my head! Oh well I don't have to worry about that anymore! Thanks for the info Methos, interesting stuff. Personally I think it looks sharp, but I think it should be for Divisions only myself. I gan just see some yahoo making up a platoon patch (my old platoon had coins) and sewing it on.
Link Posted: 4/24/2003 5:52:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/24/2003 6:33:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TimJ: IN the 101st we used the symbols on vehicles and around the Bn area. In the 187th we used the Tori, which I see they've put on they're helmets in Iraq. Personally, I think it's great. There's a lot of history behind those symbols. For leg (as opposed to leg on a rope) units the division patch is too cool. It allows ID when wearing MOPP suits, and it ensures the teams colors are noticed by us civilian types. Pony Driver, in the 2d ID the 503rd and 506th were PIR's in WWII, I'm sure they could revert to the old symbols. Damn, I'd love to get a Tori patch or two for my boonie hat and kevlar. Voilsb, which Bn is your bro in? and what position does he hold? ie machinegunner, etc..... Tim
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I don't have a problem with the 503rd or 506th reverting to their old symbols, but I'd hate to see some maintenance guy come running out in battle rattle with a cresent wrench duct taped to his kevlar. 2ID has a long and distinguished history of kicking ass. Yes they've taken their licks too, but you see where they are today.
Link Posted: 4/24/2003 7:23:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/24/2003 9:35:47 AM EDT
A lot of units used insignia on their helmets in WWII. 1st ID, 28th ID and 29th ID come to mind.
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 1:27:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER: And I thought the Indian Head looked big on my shoulder! Holt shit it'd take up 1/2 my head! Oh well I don't have to worry about that anymore! Thanks for the info Methos, interesting stuff. Personally I think it looks sharp, but I think it should be for Divisions only myself. I gan just see some yahoo making up a platoon patch (my old platoon had coins) and sewing it on.
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Or a 1st Cav patch! Haha that would have gone over like a lead zeppelin. Alex
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 3:27:46 PM EDT
I can confirm that 4ID wears their "Ivy Green" subdued patch on the left side of their Kpots. I can also confirm that neither the 2ID nor the 25ID do such. Besides that Indian Head patch would be freakin huge on a Kpot :> I work as a contractor to the Army and am around a lot of these guys regularly.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 8:02:50 AM EDT
It's not Army wide, it's unit tradition only, if you remember, Audie Murphy's unit wore the stencil on their helmet in WW2, I believe it denotes WW1 service.
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