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Posted: 12/29/2001 9:14:29 AM EDT
I live in the PR of Mass. Occasionally I go to the VA Out Patient Center near the old Boston Garden. When you walk in the door there is a small sign that says, "Firearms prohibited,those possessing firearms check in at Security, 2nd floor". After all these years of dealing with the goverment, I should have known better. This day I happen to be doing some business in the Jewelers Building on Washington St., and was carrying cash and diamonds. I packed my S&W J-frame, and headed for the VA first. I entered the building went to the 2nd floor, found the security office. There was paunchy VA guard there with his feet up on the desk having a snack. I said I had an appointment, and wanted to check my licensed pistol. The feet went skyward, the coffee hit the floor,and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. I calmly unloaded the pistol and handed it to him, "I should be back in an hour",...and walked on down the hall... When I returned to pick up my pistol, there was ten guards in this small room,looking at me like I was Charlie Manson on PCP. The Man in charge told me it was a crime to bring a firearm into a VA Building. I told him I was 'licensed to carry'(Class 'A'), and pulled a pile of cash and diamonds out of my pocket to show him why I was 'carrying'. Boss man says, 'didn't you read the sign downstairs, it say's "firearms prohibited". Yes, I replied, "but it also says those carrying FA's check in at security. Which is it ? The sign makes no sense then. Cop's come in here right, and check their weapon, you see my license, I just did what the sign indicated." My logic failed to register with the Boss Man who kept repeating,"you read the sign downstairs, firearms prohibited?" I said, "why don't you change the sign to reflect what you really want, and this whole thing could have been avoided." I was force to sign this paper, or 'they were not going to let me leave'. Like an ass I did...The sign still unchanged, sits in the lobby, and every time I pass it, I just shake my head...somethings never change....BTW, by signing this 'confession' does this put me on the VA/Goverment's most dangerous list ?...
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 7:17:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gib187th: I live in the PR of Mass. Occasionally I go to the VA Out Patient Center near the old Boston Garden. When you walk in the door there is a small sign that says, "Firearms prohibited,those possessing firearms check in at Security, 2nd floor". After all these years of dealing with the goverment, I should have known better. This day I happen to be doing some business in the Jewelers Building on Washington St., and was carrying cash and diamonds. I packed my S&W J-frame, and headed for the VA first. I entered the building went to the 2nd floor, found the security office. There was paunchy VA guard there with his feet up on the desk having a snack. I said I had an appointment, and wanted to check my licensed pistol. The feet went skyward, the coffee hit the floor,and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. I calmly unloaded the pistol and handed it to him, "I should be back in an hour",...and walked on down the hall... When I returned to pick up my pistol, there was ten guards in this small room,looking at me like I was Charlie Manson on PCP. The Man in charge told me it was a crime to bring a firearm into a VA Building. I told him I was 'licensed to carry'(Class 'A'), and pulled a pile of cash and diamonds out of my pocket to show him why I was 'carrying'. Boss man says, 'didn't you read the sign downstairs, it say's "firearms prohibited". Yes, I replied, "but it also says those carrying FA's check in at security. Which is it ? The sign makes no sense then. Cop's come in here right, and check their weapon, you see my license, I just did what the sign indicated." My logic failed to register with the Boss Man who kept repeating,"you read the sign downstairs, firearms prohibited?" I said, "why don't you change the sign to reflect what you really want, and this whole thing could have been avoided." I was force to sign this paper, or 'they were not going to let me leave'. Like an ass I did...The sign still unchanged, sits in the lobby, and every time I pass it, I just shake my head...somethings never change....BTW, by signing this 'confession' does this put me on the VA/Goverment's most dangerous list ?...
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21 reads, 0 replies. Tied with '556man' for lowest reads and replies, what an honor... I have to work on my prose.... GIb ;{> beat 556man with this one
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 7:33:51 AM EDT
Exactly what paper did they make you sign?
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 9:55:25 AM EDT
Lots of questions. First off, did you get a copy of this paper? What exactly was it? Did anyone read you your rights before they made you sign under duress? The whole thing sounds screwy, and needs to be looked at closely. Were they actual DOD police or some sort of contract security guard, and have you thought of a formal complaint?
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 12:00:40 PM EDT
Kicking '556man's' ass! Lets see, I imagine the guys were regular Federal employees because it took an hour to make a decision.. As far as the piece of paper I signed, it could have been an re-enlistment form, seeing that I left my reading glasses in car. But I think it read something to the effect, if this ever happened again they would take away my, 'Good Conduct Medal' of which I am most proud...who would hire me then ? No they didn't read me my 'rights', and I didn't think to ask for a copy,... still have my 'Class 'A' LTC' , so knowing the VA, it got lost.... the Federal 'bermuda triangle,' the VA has honed this to a science....I have a former army buddy that may be able to clear this up this mystery.....GIB
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 10:36:31 PM EDT
Next time just carry it in with you and keep your mouth shut. I grew up in MA (actually my father is a retired VA doctor...retired and teaching at BU Med because of the bureaucratic BS at VA) and had an LTC there. There are very few "prohibited places" in MA, and those guys are full of crap. It's not illegal to carry there. Ask them to cite a law. As my father says, the first rule of federal physics: For every regulation, there is an equal and opposite regulation. Sounds like this sign is another example of that.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 10:15:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 10:23:41 AM EDT by Dave_G]
Just for info, your LTC/CCW/CHL isn't valid on Federal or Indian property unless it was issued by a Federal authority or they decide to honor it. This includes Post Offices. Next time you are there, bring a disposable camera and take several pictures of the sign as you walk up to it, making sure that your pictures show the sign from a distance and show that the sign was posted at a hospital entrance. One photo should also be a closeup of the sign with the direction to check weapons at security on the second floor. Why? Evidence for the defense should it be necessary. That or leave the weapon in your car, which happends to be something I don't like to do.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 1:28:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_G: Just for info, your LTC/CCW/CHL isn't valid on Federal or Indian property unless it was issued by a Federal authority or they decide to honor it. This includes Post Offices. Next time you are there, bring a disposable camera and take several pictures of the sign as you walk up to it, making sure that your pictures show the sign from a distance and show that the sign was posted at a hospital entrance. One photo should also be a closeup of the sign with the direction to check weapons at security on the second floor. Why? Evidence for the defense should it be necessary. That or leave the weapon in your car, which happends to be something I don't like to do.
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Dave, That's a good idea, lest I find myself carrying on Federal property by mistake. I did not know that the prohibition included Post Offices as well. Point taken. Here in Mass. I believe the law allows LEO's to lock their pistols in their automobile trunk, but I do not belive this applies to civilian Class 'A' licensee. So many FA regs, so little time........Gib PS: you've heard of the popular phrase 'going postal'...I personally think they need to let us carry, or issue Kevlar vests at the door ;{>
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 2:28:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_G: Just for info, your LTC/CCW/CHL isn't valid on Federal or Indian property unless it was issued by a Federal authority or they decide to honor it. This includes Post Offices.
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Oh really? Since when? Do you have a cite? There is a CFR that appears to prohibit carry in a Post Office, but it's written so broadly that it would prevent you from mailing a rifle to an FFL or manufacturer. It's like a $50 fine. If the property's owner (federal, state, or private) posts a no weapons sign conspicuously, it doesn't matter if there is a law or not. If you go in there armed, you've committed trespass anyway. gib187th- It is legal in MA to leave your gun locked in your car's trunk or glovebox. It is a "securely locked container" and that bit about not leaving guns unattended in a vehicle got left out by the MA legislature when they passed the new law in 1998. I know because I did the legislative analysis for GOAL in 1998.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 2:37:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dbrowne1: gib187th- It is legal in MA to leave your gun locked in your car's trunk or glovebox. It is a "securely locked container" and that bit about not leaving guns unattended in a vehicle got left out by the MA legislature when they passed the new law in 1998. I know because I did the legislative analysis for GOAL in 1998.
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DB, Thanks for the clarification regarding lock a firearm in a MV, in the PP of Mass. Gib
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