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Posted: 12/8/2001 12:08:20 PM EDT
We finally have, after a rough start. First we bought pistol caliber semi-autos that were compatible with our issue sidearms, what a stupid mistake. We raised enought hell about that one that they returned them and bought Colt M16A3s, which the armorers converted to semi auto only. That didnt make sense, to spend the casxh and paperwork for select-fire when they were going to be deployed in semi only. So the current orders are from a different manufacturer and are a semi only 20" HBAR. The rifles are issued to those that ask for them, volunteers only. Our patrol rifle training is 40 hours. We have two instructors, both Former Marine Recon NCO's, both with STA experiance. Along with the rifle you are issued a Kelvlar helmet and rifle rated bodyarmor. If your going to carry the patrol rifle you also have to carry a less-leathal option, either a super-sock shotgun or pepperball gun. The rifles are zeroed at 100 yards with SP ammunition. Is it perfect, hell no. Personally I would prefer a shorter & lighter rifle and a 50/200 BZO. PS.. Other changes since North Hollywood are; optional .40SW and .45ACP sidearms, Folding 870 Marine Magnum shotguns for Motor officers, extended mag tubes, rifle sights and slugs for patrol SGTs.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 12:44:50 PM EDT
870'S in all marked cars. M-2's in the supervisors cars. There is some support to get M-4's for the supervisors and some for the patrol arsenal that can be signed out by qualified officers. Weak but a step in the right direction. Although I've never been in situation where a long gun was needed and a rifled slug wouldn't handle the job.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 1:11:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: Although I've never been in situation where a long gun was needed and a rifled slug wouldn't handle the job.
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WE have found the biggest advantage is with bank robberies and barricaded gunman situations. The Patrol Rifles allow us to set up a perimeter farther out, and still be able to engage the suspect, than we could with just sidearms and shotguns. We have all seen cops pointing their sidearms at a building 200 yards away .
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 1:53:10 PM EDT
Truth in that but I guess we learn to make due with what we've got and develop our tactics accordingly.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 1:57:15 PM EDT
Tactical officers carry M-4's or MP-5's. Everybody is issued 870's and Glock 22's. Officers are allowed to carry personally owned long guns if approved and qualified.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 4:37:54 PM EDT
Bushy shorties with ACOGs and Surefire light assemblies.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 5:12:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 6:16:57 PM EDT
Colt M-16A1 with a Surefire M500 series tactical weapons light. Brad
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 11:03:30 PM EDT
Our agency has approved 5.56 cal AR-15 rifles and Mini-14's. Most of the rifles carried are officer-owned ARs in various configurations. The department owns a few Minis and a couple of ARs that are issued. All other rifles are the officers'. All of the cars carry issue 870s, but the rifles are optional: not all of the officers have them. We recently have had red dot sights approved. The officers that carry the rifles/carbines tend to use the long guns instead of the shotguns. The ARs are effective close-up and at distances our department can encounter in the rural areas of the county
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 6:05:44 AM EDT
Dept issue Colt LE M4 14.5 semi with 55gr Soft Point. Can also carry any Colt AR clone you're qualified on. Remington 870 in 14", some with pistol grip for planclothes protection work. Standard issue sidearm is GLock 22 but if you don't take it you can carry any semi up to 45ACP or 44 SPL. with approved features, nothing smaller than 380 or 38spl for backup. Have Colt SMGs for entries, Uzi for protection details. Some replacing with the HK UMP though. HK MP5s in various config for tact. Less than lethal deployed when necessary, bean bag, OC rounds. Sniper/tracker unit utilizing Rem 700s on MCMillian stocks. AR as sniper support.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 8:28:11 AM EDT
Medium size city. We issue the Mini-14 to all officers and the AR15 is approved for private purchase and can be carried after attending the 3 day AR15 class.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 9:36:55 AM EDT
Up to 1994 we were carrying just shotguns. That year we we are able to carry 9mm AR-15s. In 1998 I think it was after the Hollywood bank robbery fiasco we were approved to carry .223 AR-15s. We have to buy them ourselves if we want to carry them and complete a mandatory training course. Of course the rules are strict and mandatory as to what criteria have to be met on a scene before you can even take it out of the unit. The S/O here was carrying .40 Ruger Carbines and recently switched to .223 Mini 14s. Reasoning for choosing both of those rifles was the less aggressive look to the public.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 11:06:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2001 10:59:52 AM EDT by Glock918]
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 11:37:37 AM EDT
We issue Bush M15 shorties and Ruger PC-9s. Both are equipped with EOtech sights. Zero'd at 50 yards. Hornady TAP 60gr duty load for 223. Speer GD 124 for 9mm.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 12:50:26 PM EDT
I'm not in NYPD ESU...just a regular cop. Ho-hum, S&W 5946 for me (yawn)
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:31:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:47:16 PM EDT
12g in the cab. A mix of Mossbergs that are being phased out with 870's. Mix of ammo with bean bag rounds availible for those whove attended the course and qualified. A half dozen Colt AR's availible to check out every shift (which covers the bigger shifts at my small department). Some personnally owned AR's/M4geries (Bushmaster/Colt) mounted in the trunks or in the cab of several cars (take home cars in a city agency). MP5's, 37mm and other fun stuff availible to the tactical team guys (inter-agency team). MSH441
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 8:52:29 PM EDT
At this time, only members of the tactical team can carry AR15's in the patrol cars. (this includes me. :)) As one of our dept. firearms instuctors, we will be allowing any Deputy to carry one after attending classes that I will teach. I am being sent to school to be a patrol rifle instructor. I am also writing the policy for this.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:23:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 7:17:57 AM EDT by Waverunner]
Originally Posted By doorgunner: Hey Waverunner, doesn't the Commissioner realize that if he issued all of his patrolmen AR15's, then you guys would reduce the ESU calls by half? Hey are the ESU guys still carrying Ruger AC556's? I saw something on Discovery Channel a few years ago, and saw one of the ESU officers carrying one. It brought back a lot of memories of 1984. I cut my teeth on one of those "hosemonsters".
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I'd personally love an AR15 in my sector car but NYC being one of the most LIBERAL cities in the United States we'll never have them. NYPD used to issue incredible black leather duty jackets that were treasured by the cops BUT the Jewish community made a stink about that...said we looked like Stormtroopers and were too authoritarian looking. Uh hello? We're the cops remember? We'll never be issued AR's, not in my carreer at least. From what I've seen NYPD ESU play with(Lucky Bastards!) they have an assortment of MP5's, Mini 14's, and Shotguns. I'll try to get better info. I know one of the guys in NYC Corrections Dept. ESU and he told me they just placed an order for 15 Colt select fire M4's, a truckload of magazines, and a limitless supply of .223! I gotta hang with these guys eventually...
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 9:04:32 AM EDT
No rifles...shotguns are a go..no less than leathal and we have been begging for pepperball.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 2:32:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 2:28:06 PM EDT by leoAR]
My department issues surplus M16A1s to designated patrol riflemen. My rifle was in pristine condition. I don't think it was issued or shot much by whatever military branch that had it before it was turned over to us. The rifle was converted to semi-automatic only. The tactical team of course gets newly purchased select fire rifles, but I'm not complaining. I love the light weight of the A1, which seems to handle almost as well as a carbine. I was told that the department received 40 rifles from a federal program for about $500.00 for the lot. Wish I could buy just one for that price. [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/leoAR%2F13%2Ejpg[/img] Sorry about the size of the picture. I didn't realize how large it was until it posted. Mike
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:51:34 PM EDT
We have issue Rem 870 for those who want them. About 4 years ago, we went to personally owned AR15 and Mini14's. Only a couple of Mini's, mostly AR's and mostly Bushy M4's. Issue Federal Match HP ammo. SWAT has about a dozen MP5's, a couple of AC556's that are left overs, and two Bushy M16's.
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 10:37:58 AM EDT
We have Ar-15, shotguns, and the SWAT guys have MP5's.
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 7:46:46 AM EDT
AR15fan, I am the Chief Firearms Instructor and Range Master for my department. We also went with the pistol caliber carbine route against my recomendation. The administration is learning from this and has issued M4 style AR15s to supervisors. I am still working on having one in each officers patrol car but it is a rough road. Please Email me at your convenience. I would like to hear more about your rifle training and qualification courses and any help you could provide. Thanks, TACT
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 8:12:59 AM EDT
Nope. STILL stuck with 14" & 18" Mossys, although we are to get DMRO (Surplus) M16s sometime... P3[pyro][^][heavy]
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 6:40:49 PM EDT
MT Hwy Patrol; issued 870's in each car, with ex DOD M14's converted to semi auto, available upon Officers request. ALL recruits must qualify with the M14's at Firearms training, but can opt to not carry one and never have to shoot or qualify with one again. SIg 229's in .357 SIG on the way to replace our Smith 5903's. Frank in Montana
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 1:57:44 AM EDT
We used to have 870 shotguns in the trunks of our squad cars, but no one wanted them or used them so they finally saw the light and pulled them out. Now they are gone for good and each member of the patrol force is being issued a Department owned Colt AR15A3 Tactical Carbine, with each patrol unit having an electronic locking roll bar mounted rifle rack. We can also self purchase any Colt manufactured AR15 rifle or carbine and use it for duty use as long as it is in .223 caliber, semi-automatic and in factory configuration. The patrol commanders vehicles have, in addition to the AR15, a 37mm tear gas type gun with rubber and foam ball projectiles for the less than lethal shots.
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 2:44:09 AM EDT
Our eventual goal is to get .223 carbines in many of our patrol cars, but right now some of the Admin types are opposed to it. It will happen some day, but it has been slow going. We have the training and instructors ready, and will probably go with a 16" Bushmaster carbine. Right now, we issue 870s to everyone. All marked units have a second 870 with beanbag rounds, which we deployed en mass about 3 years ago. We were one of the first local agencies to deploy less-lethal options directly to patrol, and are usually pretty progressive about it. We are in the process of doing a limited deployment of pepperball guns. SWAT officers carry their issue long guns on the streets and can deploy them in limited circumstances.
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 5:05:43 AM EDT
All cars and boats have M16's in them, as well as 870's. Patrol officers are trained in both, and in ERD, or "Extraordinary Rapid Deployment", for dealing with an active shooter. All 22 SWAT guys have: One MP5 in .40 One G36 in .223 One Benelli in 12 ga. One M14 Half of them also have Remington 700's
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 10:47:20 PM EDT
Our armory has a new motto; A rifle in EVERY car. I have a Colt M4 AR-15 (Personally Owned). The department issues M-16s that are Military surplus that have been modified Semi-auto only. Have to stay in the trunk though. The powers that be right now are skittish about rifles mounted in the passenger compartment. Soon though.
Link Posted: 5/5/2002 6:32:27 PM EDT
Yes we have and we got them dirt cheap from the Feds. We have M-14s and M-16s... 7th
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