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Posted: 2/28/2006 12:13:55 PM EDT
Ok so Im not ready to start robbing banks yet but Im not finding any other job opportunities that look exciting or promising. I’ve wanted to go into the DEA since I was about 10 years old and now it’s not looking too promising. I’m 20 and a senior at Sam Houston state university. I’m trying to get a bachelors in criminal justice in 3 years and transition into federal law enforcement. I have a 2.91 GPA, im physically fit, have a good head on my shoulders and have an intense interest in law enforcement. ive spoken to federal agents in the last year and ive heard the same thing from all of them. Basically after 9/11 federal agencies got excited and hired way more agents than they need and this combined with a general lack of escalation in the war on terror domestically, combined with strained budgets due to foreign war, economy, ect ect. has basically led to almost every federal agency issuing a hiring freeze. I spoke with a friend of a dea agent in the houston area(pasadena) and he said that they’re under a 10 yr projected hiring freeze and the agents that are 10 yrs from retirement were asked to take their pension now or be put on city patrol work. the guys that are in it now are being moved around and basically the whole program is being drastically minimized. Ive looked into DSS, ATF, DEA, Marshalls, ect. and it really looks like no one is hiring except for border patrol which i REALLY dont want to do. They seem to be under funded undermanned demoralized and generally under prepared for an escalating fight against human smugglers and highly sophisticated drug smugglers. Ill kick down a crack house door with an AR and 5 well trained guys but im not going to stop 5 Mexican hummers with mounted machine guns when i have a pistol and a 4 wheeler. I really want to get into some kind of specialized law enforcement organization and i truly believe that i have the ability but im not finding anything available. ive heard that since the narcotics task forces in texas were disbanded and reorganized under DPS theres hundreds of highly experienced narcotics officers that are totally unemployed. With the large numbers of people out there with bachelors degrees and experience as police officers on local departments i dont feel that local law enforcement would do anything to strengthen my resume or make me more competitive. At this point ive started looking seriously at the military. I have spent probably 10-15 hrs speaking to my local army recruiting station about the possibility of doing a 3 yr contract as army officer second lieutenant infantry. right now i just feel like im young and ready to give of myself anywhere that im needed and im open to going to war for my country, swat, narcotics, private security or contracting overseas but im not finding any agencies depts or companies that are interested in hiring straight out of college. right now im considering taking a few months after graduation in July to try to learn Spanish or Arabic with a private instructor. if this idea doesn’t make me more competitive im probably going to have to sign a contract with the marines or army and even then there’s not a guarantee that i will get the infantry position i request. on top of that im not sure that being an officer is the job that i think it is, i really dont want to be a supervisor that rides a desk. Any help or advice that you might be able to give would be greatly appreciated, im trying to talk to federal agents, army or marine infantry officers, private contractor personnel, or higher echelon people at police depts that may have openings for investigative personnel in the next few years.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:29:35 PM EDT
All i can say is hang in there man, keep up what you are doing and you will find a good job.

Goin into the service isnt that bad of an idea.

Dont be afraid to keep your options open man.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:35:01 PM EDT
May I suggest the use of paragraphs in posts of this lenght. Not trying to flame you, it's just tough to read your post.

Regards,
Gary
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:49:28 PM EDT
Dude, you are only 20 years old. Pay some dues, and get some training, first. The major complaint every seasoned cop has with certain FED's are that they have no real-world experience before going through the FBI or DEA academy.
Now, there are plenty of Agents who were street cops before they went Federal, but many are straight out of college.
Academia (and, yes, I do have my B.S.) does absolutely NOTHING to prepare you for serious police work. I would suggest some military time first, or start out at a local PD for just a year or two. That will hone abilities that you already have, enhance your officer safety, and get you thinking like a cop.
Good luck to you. Just my .02
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:31:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 2:32:25 PM EDT by Bonk2029]
I'll echo the above posts.

First, take a breath. You're getting way too wound up for a 20 year old. The world isn't going to stop if you don't score your dream job this year.

Second, you are no position to poo-poo or generally dump on any law enforcement position, regardless of how beneath you it may appear to be. You haven't begun to pay the level of dues that many of us who are also in the various processes for federal LE spots have been paying for years. Joining the military or a local law enforcement agency will absolutely strengthen your resume, not to mention give you the experience that you apparently lack. You are also not, except in very rare circumstances, going to score the investigative or narc spots that you covet without putting in some time on the street, which again should not be looked down upon by someone in your shoes.

Take some time, examine your priorities, set some goals, then get to it.

I'm not trying to be too harsh, it just looks like you need to put things in perspective.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:55:43 PM EDT
senior in university at 20 years old? That's almost Doogie Howser!

Most large agencies, local included, will want you to have some "life experience" in addition to a degree.

Dude, you need to slow down. Kicking in doors is cool, but most people don't realize how much work actually goes into it. If you interview and say, "I want to kick in a door with five dudes with ARs and blah," they'll check the psycho box for sure. If you want to kick in doors you should say "I look forward to performing complex and time consuming investigations, and conveying those facts in lenghty written reports."
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 3:07:51 PM EDT
border patrol
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 3:49:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 3:55:52 PM EDT by NavajoGunOwner]
Ill kick down a crack house door with an AR and 5 well trained guys


Why would they want to go in with you?

You have no training, or experiance.....Check back in ten years (when the 'hiring freeze' is over) and you might have paid your dues to earn your spot on a special team.

Don't mean to bust you chops but the phase "paying your dues" based on a real concept. If you hang in there and humble yourself and start at the bottom you might learn a thing or two and earn a position on the team kicking in doors.



ETA: Remeber 80% of the people out their are not working in the field of thier degree after ten years....You may find out why as you grow up, you have ALOT of changes coming in the next 10 tens, work satisfaction, responsiblity acceptance, attitude and life perspective are going to change.
Not to mention what will happen when you find that "special woman" who starts to wonder if you need to be "risking your life like that".....
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:03:46 PM EDT
The marines may not, but the Army will guarantee you your MOS of choice.

A few years of quality service in the military is good experience towards any career.

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:45:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pevrs114:
The marines may not, but the Army will guarantee you your MOS of choice.

A few years of quality service in the military is good experience towards any career.




But he does not want to work, but kick down doors with 5 other well trained guys
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 8:55:18 PM EDT
wow im sorry for not clarifying some of the statements that i made in this post. im very aware that im new and have to pay my due. Im familiar with the concept of promoting from the ranks and i understand that any narcotics det. postition is only going to be open to officers that have had at least 1-5 years experience on the job depending on the police department. im willing to be a parol officer for a few years if it will get me into an investigative division and investigations will in turn make me competitive for federal agencies; but what i was trying to say is that now days patrol experience is not an uncommon skill among federal applicants and neither is narcotics or any other investigative areas. partrol cops apply by the thousands to fed. and none of their applications stand out from one an other, im assuming that special investigators (narc, vice, ect.) are having the same luck. ive done ride alongs with my local pd and i liked it alot, ive dealt with undercover narcotics officers in local departments and that looks like a rewarding job too but im worried that neither of those jobs will get me hired federally!

in response to kicking the door in thing... that was an analogy! i dont want to kick doors down right away. I was trying to say that im willing to conduct high risk law enforcement activities with the proper training, equipment and personel but i dont want to do border patrol because they have a high risk job without the proper training, equipment, personel and frankly moralle. They were having a hard enough time handling the alien problem and now they have mexican military stepping on them... Poor guys! many of my friends have told me to go border patrol because theyre the only federal agency hiring and then transition horizontally but im hesitant due to the previously mentioned orgizational problems.

i do agree with some of you about military being a serious consideration but im not sure if i want to go enlisted or officer. I am young and foolish as all of you have mentioned and if i go in i would like to carry a rifle and take an active part in combat(private or E2) but i feel that i am also a natural leader and would enjoy the duties of an officer who leads others(2nd lieutenant)l but im worried that if i enlist i will be wasting the opportunities afforded to me by my degree and if i go in as an officer i will end up at a desk doing paperwork and being saluted by kids my age that are acutally willing to fight.

essentially what im saying is that im willing to pay my dues and give my time in any job that will give me the maturity and experience to become a valuable asset to a federal agency like DEA or ATF. i understand that the average entry age for an agent is 30 and im not going to be able to hire directly into an agency straight from college, but im wondering what yall think the best thing is for me to do in the meantime?

if you think i can be most effective to society as a patrol officer in houston for 10 years and then have a good shot at federal then im willing to do that
if i need to enlist as army infantry E2 and go fight in iraq (and soon in palestine, somalia, and iran at our current ratehock.gif) ill do that too
if i should serve as a marine infantry officer im willing to do that too
ive thought about private contractor work in iraq or afighanistan with blackwater or kbr.
If i really have to ill even go to work with border patrol and get my ass kicked by MS 13 and the Mexican army who works for them!
im still open to yalls comments and suggestions; all of you have been in my place and im wondering what worked best for yall.

p.s.
sorry about the lack of paragraphs in the last post and the totall lack of mental organization, im tired today(week before midterms!) and im just really worried about what im going to do in a few months when i graduate.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:08:04 AM EDT
"but what i was trying to say is that now days patrol experience is not an uncommon skill among federal applicants and neither is narcotics or any other investigative areas. partrol cops apply by the thousands to fed. and none of their applications stand out from one an other"

Well it certainly stands out a lot more than a 20 year old college graduate with no experience.

I hope you find work and in a decade know what you want to do.

You have no idea what wonderful and terrible things will happen to you in the next decade.

I didn't know I wanted to be a police officer until I was closer to 40 than 30. And that is a great thing because I would have been a terrific failure had I tried at your age. That does not mean you and I are the same. I just mean that persons in your age bracket will change as more life experience occurs. Those changes can make you a better candidate. You will know yourself much better; what makes you work the best, what gets you into trouble, what your true strengths are, and what you really can do for 20-30 straight years.

Last night a couple of lowly patrol officers in my dept pulled several persons from a burning house and saved their lives. How sweet would that be to do??

I may never get to do that, but I have a chance of doing something great, wonderful, and life altering every night.

Kicking in doors might not be what you think it is in real life. Remember this though, leadership starts at the bottom and first responders, PATROL OFFICERS, are the ones who make it all happen.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:24:59 AM EDT
I'm curious.....what makes you think that you are a natural leader?

From your posts it appears that you are an impatient worry wart and so completely consumed with becoming a fed that you can't think straight.

Relax a little.

Think about what you can do to help you become a fed....but pick something that you can stick with in the event that you don't get hired by them.

My area is close to Quantico and I get to meet alot of feds both on duty and off duty (even arrested one once )
The ones who were prior law enforcement always bitch about the agents that got hired right out of college. They tell me that they just don't have the common street sense that an experienced cop developes after a number of years on the job. That is something that can't be taught in a classroom.

Here is my suggestion. Try to join the USMC as an officer. Sometime before your commission is up, get on with a department as a reserve/auxiliary police officer. Make sure it is a department that gets you certified and lets you do criminal patrol. This is easiest to find on the west coast, but there are a few departments here in Virginia near Quantico that have similar programs too. When you get out (or before when you are on terminal leave) you stand an excellent chance of being hired full-time. Once you do this you work towards some sort of specialized assignment, I would suggest "SWAT" first and then later vice/narcotics. You can even possible get put on a regional taskforce. By this time it should be about 10 years and you would be in a decent position to get hired with the feds.


Originally Posted By hkusp9:
wow im sorry for not clarifying some of the statements that i made in this post. im very aware that im new and have to pay my due. Im familiar with the concept of promoting from the ranks and i understand that any narcotics det. postition is only going to be open to officers that have had at least 1-5 years experience on the job depending on the police department. im willing to be a parol officer for a few years if it will get me into an investigative division and investigations will in turn make me competitive for federal agencies; but what i was trying to say is that now days patrol experience is not an uncommon skill among federal applicants and neither is narcotics or any other investigative areas. partrol cops apply by the thousands to fed. and none of their applications stand out from one an other, im assuming that special investigators (narc, vice, ect.) are having the same luck. ive done ride alongs with my local pd and i liked it alot, ive dealt with undercover narcotics officers in local departments and that looks like a rewarding job too but im worried that neither of those jobs will get me hired federally!

in response to kicking the door in thing... that was an analogy! i dont want to kick doors down right away. I was trying to say that im willing to conduct high risk law enforcement activities with the proper training, equipment and personel but i dont want to do border patrol because they have a high risk job without the proper training, equipment, personel and frankly moralle. They were having a hard enough time handling the alien problem and now they have mexican military stepping on them... Poor guys! many of my friends have told me to go border patrol because theyre the only federal agency hiring and then transition horizontally but im hesitant due to the previously mentioned orgizational problems.

i do agree with some of you about military being a serious consideration but im not sure if i want to go enlisted or officer. I am young and foolish as all of you have mentioned and if i go in i would like to carry a rifle and take an active part in combat(private or E2) but i feel that i am also a natural leader and would enjoy the duties of an officer who leads others(2nd lieutenant)l but im worried that if i enlist i will be wasting the opportunities afforded to me by my degree and if i go in as an officer i will end up at a desk doing paperwork and being saluted by kids my age that are acutally willing to fight.

essentially what im saying is that im willing to pay my dues and give my time in any job that will give me the maturity and experience to become a valuable asset to a federal agency like DEA or ATF. i understand that the average entry age for an agent is 30 and im not going to be able to hire directly into an agency straight from college, but im wondering what yall think the best thing is for me to do in the meantime?

if you think i can be most effective to society as a patrol officer in houston for 10 years and then have a good shot at federal then im willing to do that
if i need to enlist as army infantry E2 and go fight in iraq (and soon in palestine, somalia, and iran at our current rate) ill do that too
if i should serve as a marine infantry officer im willing to do that too
ive thought about private contractor work in iraq or afighanistan with blackwater or kbr.
If i really have to ill even go to work with border patrol and get my ass kicked by MS 13 and the Mexican army who works for them!
im still open to yalls comments and suggestions; all of you have been in my place and im wondering what worked best for yall.

p.s.
sorry about the lack of paragraphs in the last post and the totall lack of mental organization, im tired today(week before midterms!) and im just really worried about what im going to do in a few months when i graduate.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:45:06 AM EDT
Good point. I got hired with my dept at 34 years old. I had tried and tried to get hired back when I was 20-21 years old and could never quite make it. Looking back, I wouldn't hire me back them if it was up to me. I was immature and had unrealistic expectations about what a law enforcement career would be. I joined the Marine Corps Reserve and pressed on with my life, leaving the thoughts of being a cop aside for the most part. Eventually, I was asked to apply with my current department. I was a strong, mature and well rounded candidate compared to most of the other applicants and I had no trouble getting hired. It was unbelievable. Now I just think back on when I was 20-21 years old with embarassment....I just can't believe some of the things I said in the oral interviews...


Originally Posted By bigern:
"but what i was trying to say is that now days patrol experience is not an uncommon skill among federal applicants and neither is narcotics or any other investigative areas. partrol cops apply by the thousands to fed. and none of their applications stand out from one an other"

Well it certainly stands out a lot more than a 20 year old college graduate with no experience.

I hope you find work and in a decade know what you want to do.

You have no idea what wonderful and terrible things will happen to you in the next decade.

I didn't know I wanted to be a police officer until I was closer to 40 than 30. And that is a great thing because I would have been a terrific failure had I tried at your age. That does not mean you and I are the same. I just mean that persons in your age bracket will change as more life experience occurs. Those changes can make you a better candidate. You will know yourself much better; what makes you work the best, what gets you into trouble, what your true strengths are, and what you really can do for 20-30 straight years.

Last night a couple of lowly patrol officers in my dept pulled several persons from a burning house and saved their lives. How sweet would that be to do??

I may never get to do that, but I have a chance of doing something great, wonderful, and life altering every night.

Kicking in doors might not be what you think it is in real life. Remember this though, leadership starts at the bottom and first responders, PATROL OFFICERS, are the ones who make it all happen.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:59:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By trippletap: It was unbelievable. Now I just think back on when I was 20-21 years old with embarassment....I just can't believe some of the things I said in the oral interviews...


Oh my, you have to share a few with us. Are they the, "I'd shoot the gun out of his hand" type?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:10:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hkusp9:
i do agree with some of you about military being a serious consideration but im not sure if i want to go enlisted or officer. I am young and foolish as all of you have mentioned and if i go in i would like to carry a rifle and take an active part in combat(private or E2) but i feel that i am also a natural leader and would enjoy the duties of an officer who leads others(2nd lieutenant)l but im worried that if i enlist i will be wasting the opportunities afforded to me by my degree and if i go in as an officer i will end up at a desk doing paperwork and being saluted by kids my age that are acutally willing to fight.




Personally, I would say as enlisted. With a bachelor's degree, you should be coming in as an E3 or E4, depending on the service. Most NCO ranks start at E4/E5 for the services. NCO's are most definitely leaders, so don't fall into the common assumption htat only commissioned officers are "leaders". In fact, most combat arms types will agree that the commissioned officer has much less effect on the immediate and necessary leadership, training, and molding of a soldier/marine than does his most immediate supervisory NCO.

A tour with the military may also temper some of your eagerness, which while not a bad thing, when focused is much more effective. It certainly worked for me - I was chomping at the bit at 20 years old, but now, with a bit more world experience under my belt, and having been responsible for 10 lives for a year's duration, I am much more reserved and focused when it comes to being gung ho.

Give it some seruios thought... I don't think you'll regret it.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:31:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pevrs114:

Originally Posted By hkusp9:
i do agree with some of you about military being a serious consideration but im not sure if i want to go enlisted or officer. I am young and foolish as all of you have mentioned and if i go in i would like to carry a rifle and take an active part in combat(private or E2) but i feel that i am also a natural leader and would enjoy the duties of an officer who leads others(2nd lieutenant)l but im worried that if i enlist i will be wasting the opportunities afforded to me by my degree and if i go in as an officer i will end up at a desk doing paperwork and being saluted by kids my age that are acutally willing to fight.




Personally, I would say as enlisted. With a bachelor's degree, you should be coming in as an E3 or E4, depending on the service. Most NCO ranks start at E4/E5 for the services. NCO's are most definitely leaders, so don't fall into the common assumption htat only commissioned officers are "leaders". In fact, most combat arms types will agree that the commissioned officer has much less effect on the immediate and necessary leadership, training, and molding of a soldier/marine than does his most immediate supervisory NCO.

A tour with the military may also temper some of your eagerness, which while not a bad thing, when focused is much more effective. It certainly worked for me - I was chomping at the bit at 20 years old, but now, with a bit more world experience under my belt, and having been responsible for 10 lives for a year's duration, I am much more reserved and focused when it comes to being gung ho.

Give it some seruios thought... I don't think you'll regret it.



Hooah, brother. NCO's are the true leaders in every branch of service. Officers are administrators focused on the big picture. While there is nothing wrong with that, I personally feel that a competent NCO is a better all around leader because of the ability to plan AND conduct operations.
Additionally, getting your hands a little dirty, as any good NCO will do, stregnthens further your operational and leadership skills.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:59:53 AM EDT
Being gung ho is okay. But remember you are in a marathon not a sprint. Pace your self.
A lot of really good work is done by the street cops. As a street cop you have to develop a really good BS meter just to survive. You can work on some really "cool" assignments.

That being said I will totally disagree with you when you say there is nothing to gain by being a street cop. I have a buddy who wanted to go to the DEA and he got there. Not by wanting, but by doing. He built a solid reputation as a street cop. He made some really solid dope cases, did good by the book work. He got into some really messed up things along the way. OIS's etc. He got to do some UC narc work.

All of this worked out for him.

Not a slam but your GPA is about like mine was. School's fun.



Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:24:57 AM EDT
Enlist.

www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=144

Give Uncle Sam a few years as a 97B (Counterintelligence Agent), and when you leave you will have very marketable experience, skills, and a Top Secret clearance.

Is it an easy MOS to get? No. But with a degree and a bit of pigheadedness refusing to accept any other MOS you may have a shot at it.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:38:52 AM EDT
My company is hiring. But you need to know how to type.

BWAH! Sorry. j/k. don't panic. You'll find something.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:03:55 AM EDT
If you are so dead set on being a high-speed-low-drag operator type, your best option right now is the military. Go SF. They have terrific oportunities right now in that line of work.

Now, if you were just hoping to knock out a few years of collage and slide into a comfy Fed job, with a badge and a sweet Fed paycheck, and pension, you may have been a little optimistic.

The hard truth is that everybody wants those jobs, and you have to be willing to pay the dues. Very few people achieve there dream job right away. Persistance will get you there.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:15:40 PM EDT
that NCO information was exactly what i was looking for! thank you. im really interested in military for many of the reasons listed above but the only options they really gave me was enlisted lower ranks and officer. they made enlisted infantry sound like i would be able to fight, but at the very bottom ranks, and officer sounded like i would be a little higher in the ranks than necessary but with very little actual combat. NCO sounded like the best of both worlds, leading from the front and fighting along side those i would lead, but they didnt really offer this to me. They made is sound like the second lt. commanded the NCO and the NCO commanded a 30-40 man platoon. Athough the 2nd lt. was the boss the NCO usually has 5-10 yrs experience in the feild and hes the one who makes the daily decisions for his platoon. I would be very interested in an NCO position in marine or army infantry but im wondering if i can get it straight out of college and if i want that responsibility considering that NCOs have a few years under their belt fighting before they even became an NCO. If i become an NCO straight out of basic and AIT and then get shipped to iraq or A-stan will i have the knowledge and experience to keep myself and 40 other guys from getting killed?

Also, yes i know that patrol work is a wonderful job, ive stopped at several really bad car wrecks in the past few years and saved a few lives, ive saved people lifeguarding, ive broken up domestics among my neighbors, ive been shot at, in fist fights, served as a CI against local dealers (NEVER used, or broke laws), ive stopped assaults in progress and even ran a few car burglars out of my apt. complex in the last year, ive been on ride alongs and i agree that patrol is a wonderful career that i would be happy to make a life out of, but ive got several buddies in it now and they all say that it wont get them any career advancments outside of their depts.

i understand that i sound eager to work but college was never for me, i dont drink, party, womanize, or enjoy book work and standardized tests. Ive always wanted a position of authority protecting others against evil people; it can take the form of military, patrol, ect. ect. but ive always had a strong desire to combat narcotics and i know that i want to be able to do this one day on a large scale. more americans suffer drug related deaths in america each year than the total number of americans that have died of terrorist attack from 9/11 untill now.

Im not in a big hurry to go shoot bad guys and kick doors down. I believe it when you say that its not as much fun as it looks! I do however believe that if im going to have to do some from of high risk, high stress, physically strenuous activity i should do it while im young, brave, in shape, and without wife and kids.

I would like to have a wife one day but ive explained to my girlfriend of 2 yrs. who wants marriage that im not going to settle down untill i have a stable and safe career which excludes military, undercover work, bomb defusing ect. and im prob. going to have to do something like this for the first few years to build a resume and build myself.

additionally, many of you are questioning my maturity, responsibility, dedication to LE in light of my GPA, leadership abilities, ect. and i can understand your reasoning (I am young); but lets assume for the sake of discussion that i do want to do LE for a lifetime and that i already have everything it takes to make it (physically and psychologically). If im not ready for it and i get flunked out of an oral board or pee my pants on my first meth house raid then its my own fault for getting myself into something i wasnt ready for. It wont be yalls fault for giving me the idea. I promise i wont get any of yall into danger by getting into a job over my head, if i did make DEA straight out of college and i couldnt handle it then i would resign and be able to move on to something im truly good at just that much sooner, although i cant imagine anything that i would like to do more than LE!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 2:41:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 2:42:03 PM EDT by LastDefender]
I would recomend service in the armed forces. Most departments give preference to honorably discharged vets. Any MOS would due but you might be able to select 31 Bravo.

Good Luck.... and remember, while kicking down doors may seem exciting most police work is about serving the community in which you work. Remember the motto, to protect and serve.

Gary
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:25:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 4:30:09 PM EDT by highdraglowspeed]
Learn to be a good follower and build the skills needed. Find a mentor. Follow your dream. It appears that you want to "kick ass". Take an adrenaline ride. Not a bad thing. Just be careful what you wish for.

You seem to have very strong convictions. Also a good thing. The nation needs people to go into harms way and do good. Remember that if you stare into the Abyss, it just might stare back..

Best of luck to you. I wish you success and a safe journey.

BTW peeing your pants isn't as bad as pooping them. That's why everyone takes a bio break before warrant svc. Even Sr. Operators the old guys still get goosey.


Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:53:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hkusp9:
that NCO information was exactly what i was looking for! thank you. im really interested in military for many of the reasons listed above but the only options they really gave me was enlisted lower ranks and officer. they made enlisted infantry sound like i would be able to fight, but at the very bottom ranks, and officer sounded like i would be a little higher in the ranks than necessary but with very little actual combat. NCO sounded like the best of both worlds, leading from the front and fighting along side those i would lead, but they didnt really offer this to me. They made is sound like the second lt. commanded the NCO and the NCO commanded a 30-40 man platoon. Athough the 2nd lt. was the boss the NCO usually has 5-10 yrs experience in the feild and hes the one who makes the daily decisions for his platoon. I would be very interested in an NCO position in marine or army infantry but im wondering if i can get it straight out of college and if i want that responsibility considering that NCOs have a few years under their belt fighting before they even became an NCO. If i become an NCO straight out of basic and AIT and then get shipped to iraq or A-stan will i have the knowledge and experience to keep myself and 40 other guys from getting killed?
Chill! You need to calm down and listen to yourself. What have you done up to this point in your life that demostrates leadership ability? You don't get these types of position handed to you just because you have a degree and /or have a feeling that you are a leader. You need to demostrate you can be the best follower, thereby setting the example of how to act AND creating the desire in others to emulate you and follow you. True leadership, not authority only, is having people willing to follow you reguardless of you position.

I know people with degrees that were enlisted and SERVED for several years before becomeing an NCO and later an Officer. Not because they lack the ability to step into the postion but because they wanted to SERVE. What I have seen in all your writing is a deire to serve without that I don';t see you lasting for a long time the "door kicking" moments are far and few in between, the rest of the time is paperwork, politics, stupid people and stuff you WILL hate doing. Do you really want to serve? What does that mean to you?


Also, yes i know that patrol work is a wonderful job, ive stopped at several really bad car wrecks in the past few years and saved a few lives, ive saved people lifeguarding, ive broken up domestics among my neighbors, ive been shot at, in fist fights, served as a CI against local dealers (NEVER used, or broke laws), ive stopped assaults in progress and even ran a few car burglars out of my apt. complex in the last year, ive been on ride alongs and i agree that patrol is a wonderful career that i would be happy to make a life out of, but ive got several buddies in it now and they all say that it wont get them any career advancments outside of their depts.More adrenaline stuff, not what a job is made of day to day. If you want this get a job as a bouncer or back stage guard

i understand that i sound eager to work but college was never for me, i dont drink, party, womanize, or enjoy book work and standardized tests. Ive always wanted a position of authority Your old enough, once again up to this point what have you done to earn positions of authority? Positions that weren't handed to you....protecting others against evil people; it can take the form of military, patrol, ect. ect. but ive always had a strong desire to combat narcotics and i know that i want to be able to do this one day on a large scale. more americans suffer drug related deaths in america each year than the total number of americans that have died of terrorist attack from 9/11 untill now. This true of most people, so what....

Im not in a big hurry to go shoot bad guys and kick doors down. I believe it when you say that its not as much fun as it looks! I do however believe that if im going to have to do some from of high risk, high stress, physically strenuous activity i should do it while im young reads- inmature, brave reads- naive, in shape I'll that old street fighter before I would take a city karate "master" with me into a fight., and without wife and kids.

I would like to have a wife one day but ive explained to my girlfriend of 2 yrs. who wants marriage that im not going to settle down untill i have a stable and safe career which excludes military, I she willing to wait? be ready to have her move on after the first year or two...undercover work, bomb defusing ect. and im prob. going to have to do something like this for the first few years to build a resume and build myself.


additionally, many of you are questioning my maturity, responsibility, dedication to LE in light of my GPA, leadership abilities, ect. and i can understand your reasoning (I am young); but lets assume for the sake of discussion that i do want to do LE for a lifetime You have NO idea if this is true, better to honest and say you have a desire at this time to do LE work and that i already have everything it takes to make it (physically and psychologically) Not true, at this point you may have the minimum requierments to get in the door, until you make it through training AND are tested in the field, you , nor anyone really knows. . If im not ready for it and i get flunked out of an oral board or pee my pants on my first meth house raid then its my own fault for getting myself into something i wasnt ready for. Nobody would be willing to spend enough money to get you to this point before you hadn't already proven yourself at a more basic level It wont be yalls fault for giving me the idea. Just what I am trying , maybe poorly, to get across to you....Is this a desire of yours or just a 'Cool idea that sounds like it would be fun to be part of" I promise i wont get any of yall into danger by getting into a job over my head, if i did make DEA straight out of college and i couldnt handle it then i would resign and be able to move on to something im truly good at just that much sooner, Never this easy especially once you have obligations and started to sink roots. Plus, doing this would first require you to admit you made a mistake, to yourself and to others. Have you ever had to eat crow and be humbled in front of other people. although i cant imagine anything that i would like to do more than LE! This is what would prevent you from quitting if it an't right for you, lots of men would fell like a failure and then they just occupy a positon and become part of the problem , a problem that you will find in every feild of endevour, something you will have to deal with.



Find out more about yourself see if the your are a square peg for the square hole. Read this book it has helped a lot of people.
"Finding the Career That Fits You"

Begin Career Planning now!

Suitable for individual or group use, this workbook includes a Personality Analysis as well as surveys for examining your interest, skills, and work priorities. Through this self-assessment process you will gain a clear understanding of your pattern for work.

Ellis/Burkett, 186 pages, soft cover


What you have done up this point in schooling is just enough to get you in the door...min requirements....that it. You still have a long way to go before anybody would want to be with you kicking in a door.... Join the military, be humbled! Then be built up by someone and be the best follower , then see anyone is following your example, then maybe you will meet the min. requirements to be a leader......good luck.....(no such thing by the way)
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:05:46 PM EDT
this is good advice from all of you and i really appreciate it. The NCO thing that was mentioned earlier has me really intrigued. Can i get appointed NCO shortly after basic or is it something that you have to learn and earn from time served and experience. And if they just give it to you, will i want it? I want to lead and fight but im wondering if the army or marines will properly prepare me to lead THE fight as an NCO straight out of basic and AIT. I definitely have the desire but i hear that the 2nd lt. listens to the NCO during battle because the NCO usually has more experience in battle. I think im narrowing my focus now but i want to make sure that i do it correctly.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:26:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 6:28:14 PM EDT by jadams951]
Lay off the caffeine dude.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:18:49 AM EDT
You won't be an NCO right off the bat. You will have to gain a level of expertise and experience before you're allowed to lead anyone, in any field, military or LE or business.

I admire your persistence... I'm a bit concerned that it seems to come across that you want to jump a few levels ahead... you mentioned you don't mind paying your dues... well, the bottom line is, the dues suck ass. You're going to have to be a boot recruit, or a patrolman, or the rookie, for a few YEARS before you can do anything else. Unless, of cousre, you finagle your way into a management position, and then expect taht your underlings will hate you b/c a) you have no experience b) you can't do what you want them to do. It's a matter of credibility. it's earned with blood sweat and tears, slowly and painfully.

Take a serious look at an airborne infantry enlistment contract with the army. You will get all the high speed machine gunning, jumping out of planes, kicking in doors goodness, as well as start to build that foundation of knowledge and experience. You probably will serve a tour in Iraq or Astan, which will be a good thing. You will be a leader before you know it, and then y ou will realize that it's not about glory at all, it's about RESPONSIBILITY. it's not about being IN CHARGE of anyone, it's about being CHARGED WITH their safety, training, and performance.

Two very different things.


Best of luck!
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:34:45 AM EDT
If u go into the military you would probably get E2-E3 which would be just a couple levels under nco it would give you the time to learn your leadership skills.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:14:55 AM EDT
ok this makes alot of sense, i would hope that they dont give NCO positions to just anyone fresh out of bootcamp just because they have a degree, this would likely get a lot of people killed. If i sign up as an officer im looking at a 3 yr. contract which is a big obligation to something that i know nothing about (on one that goes miliary can really understand what it truly entails) but if i go enlisted i can sign a 15 month contract which is much less of an obligation and im almost guaranteed to see some action.

So my new question is: if i go in as an E2-E3 (specailist right?) what job does that entail and how long would i have to stay at that rank before i made NCO, or at least a fighting role with some authority, responsibility, ect.
basically whats the ranks:private,specialist, seargant , ______, ________, NCO.
also what do yall think about private contract work with Halliburton or Blackwater, is it more money and less pristige, and can i even get something like that without prior military experience?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:45:01 AM EDT
Have you thought about a job as a Game Warden? It has aspects of law Enforcement and preservation of natural resources. If you want danger think about a midnight stakeout on poachers. They are rough ,tough and well armed. Did I mention most Game Wardens work alone in the middle of nowhere.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:54:58 AM EDT
Go here:

www.goarmy.com and the answers to 90% of yur questions will be found.

After sending a few hours there head over to the Hall of Heros forum and ask away anything you have doubts on.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:23:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 11:30:56 AM EDT by trippletap]
Hehe heh, yep. On one, they asked: "Ok, you are in an alley trying to arrest a suspect and he raises a large stick up as if he is going to hit you with it. What would you do?"
At the time I was heavily into Aikido and Jujitsu, and we had recently been practicing disarming people with sticks, knives and guns....so I answered, "I would take it from him.". The three member panel was incredulous and one of them started giving me crap about my answer....almost yelling at me. I stuck by my answer and explained that I "knew how to do it." They were looking at me like I was some sort of alien or something.


Originally Posted By bigern:

Originally Posted By trippletap: It was unbelievable. Now I just think back on when I was 20-21 years old with embarassment....I just can't believe some of the things I said in the oral interviews...


Oh my, you have to share a few with us. Are they the, "I'd shoot the gun out of his hand" type?

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:34:28 AM EDT
The only reason I mentioned going in as an officer rather than as enlisted is that when you get out, you are in a better position to work as a defense contractor in the event that you don't get a fed job.

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 12:00:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hkusp9:
that NCO information was exactly what i was looking for! thank you. im really interested in military for many of the reasons listed above but the only options they really gave me was enlisted lower ranks and officer. they made enlisted infantry sound like i would be able to fight, but at the very bottom ranks, and officer sounded like i would be a little higher in the ranks than necessary but with very little actual combat. NCO sounded like the best of both worlds, leading from the front and fighting along side those i would lead, but they didnt really offer this to me. They made is sound like the second lt. commanded the NCO and the NCO commanded a 30-40 man platoon. Athough the 2nd lt. was the boss the NCO usually has 5-10 yrs experience in the feild and hes the one who makes the daily decisions for his platoon. I would be very interested in an NCO position in marine or army infantry but im wondering if i can get it straight out of college and if i want that responsibility considering that NCOs have a few years under their belt fighting before they even became an NCO. If i become an NCO straight out of basic and AIT and then get shipped to iraq or A-stan will i have the knowledge and experience to keep myself and 40 other guys from getting killed?

Also, yes i know that patrol work is a wonderful job, ive stopped at several really bad car wrecks in the past few years and saved a few lives, ive saved people lifeguarding, ive broken up domestics among my neighbors, ive been shot at, in fist fights, served as a CI against local dealers (NEVER used, or broke laws), ive stopped assaults in progress and even ran a few car burglars out of my apt. complex in the last year, ive been on ride alongs and i agree that patrol is a wonderful career that i would be happy to make a life out of, but ive got several buddies in it now and they all say that it wont get them any career advancments outside of their depts.

i understand that i sound eager to work but college was never for me, i dont drink, party, womanize, or enjoy book work and standardized tests. Ive always wanted a position of authority protecting others against evil people; it can take the form of military, patrol, ect. ect. but ive always had a strong desire to combat narcotics and i know that i want to be able to do this one day on a large scale. more americans suffer drug related deaths in america each year than the total number of americans that have died of terrorist attack from 9/11 untill now.

Im not in a big hurry to go shoot bad guys and kick doors down. I believe it when you say that its not as much fun as it looks! I do however believe that if im going to have to do some from of high risk, high stress, physically strenuous activity i should do it while im young, brave, in shape, and without wife and kids.

I would like to have a wife one day but ive explained to my girlfriend of 2 yrs. who wants marriage that im not going to settle down untill i have a stable and safe career which excludes military, undercover work, bomb defusing ect. and im prob. going to have to do something like this for the first few years to build a resume and build myself.

additionally, many of you are questioning my maturity, responsibility, dedication to LE in light of my GPA, leadership abilities, ect. and i can understand your reasoning (I am young); but lets assume for the sake of discussion that i do want to do LE for a lifetime and that i already have everything it takes to make it (physically and psychologically). If im not ready for it and i get flunked out of an oral board or pee my pants on my first meth house raid then its my own fault for getting myself into something i wasnt ready for. It wont be yalls fault for giving me the idea. I promise i wont get any of yall into danger by getting into a job over my head, if i did make DEA straight out of college and i couldnt handle it then i would resign and be able to move on to something im truly good at just that much sooner, although i cant imagine anything that i would like to do more than LE!





"Also, yes i know that patrol work is a wonderful job, ive stopped at several really bad car wrecks in the past few years and saved a few lives, ive saved people lifeguarding, ive broken up domestics among my neighbors, ive been shot at, in fist fights, served as a CI against local dealers (NEVER used, or broke laws), ive stopped assaults in progress and even ran a few car burglars out of my apt. complex in the last year, ive been on ride alongs and i agree that patrol is a wonderful career that i would be happy to make a life out of, but ive got several buddies in it now and they all say that it wont get them any career advancments outside of their depts....."

You've saved lives, broken up domestics and have been SHOT AT??????

We have a term for guys like you.........."squirrel."
Grow up some before you even think about applying to be a cop...
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 12:31:55 PM EDT
I'm in the same position you (the author of this thread) are in. I just graduated and have no clue where to go from here. Well, that's not entirely true. I've been working for my schools PD for four years, did two years seasonal work at another PD, and now i'm debating whether to apply full time or go military.

But to echo everyone else's comments, experience is only had through starting somewhere. Whether it be as an officer or enlisted, you will start at the "bottom". But it's only temporary. Also, depending on where you're geographically located there are positions within Police departments that can get your feet wet. I know there are some here in Maryland and in Virginia.

Just remember to think everything through, research it, and take it easy. Making rash or snap decisions on something that could alter your life immensely isn't going to help you attain your ultimate goal. Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 1:00:19 PM EDT
Don't know if this has been covered yet, just skimmed the above posts, but if you really want to get hired by the DEA and get to wear the cool black BDU's at Quantico, you really need to get some real world experience. A 2.91 gpa from your college doesn't amout to much. You are going to be up against guys with law degrees from ivy league schools. You best bet is either the .mil which has been suggested, or a local police force, doing both would be best. One problem the DEA has right now is a lack of action takers, people who are willing to go undercover and get the job done. There are plenty of college boys and bureaucrats that don't want to get their suits dirty. Get some street experience, and you wil look more appealing to the DEA.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:30:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shogun187:
I'm in the same position you (the author of this thread) are in. I just graduated and have no clue where to go from here. Well, that's not entirely true. I've been working for my schools PD for four years, did two years seasonal work at another PD, and now i'm debating whether to apply full time or go military.

But to echo everyone else's comments, experience is only had through starting somewhere. Whether it be as an officer or enlisted, you will start at the "bottom". But it's only temporary. Also, depending on where you're geographically located there are positions within Police departments that can get your feet wet. I know there are some here in Maryland and in Virginia.

Just remember to think everything through, research it, and take it easy. Making rash or snap decisions on something that could alter your life immensely isn't going to help you attain your ultimate goal. Good luck.



Well look at Mr Mellow.
Well said. Best of luck to you as well.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 7:15:09 AM EDT
Hey,

From what I've been reading you want to get into the shit pretty dang fast. Listen to what the others are saying. Do yourself a favor and go active duty in pretty much any branch to get some life experence. When I was 17 I was a snot nosed little turd. Spent 9 years active duty in the navy flying off CV's as an enlisted sensor operator. Went to collage got a degree in Ag. Sold tractors for a little more than a year then got the LEO bug. Got one Department to put me through the acadamey but due to personal conflicts w/an FTO left there to work on a commercial hog farm for a while and finally got hired with my present agency. In otherwords stick to what you want to do and just remember sometimes it doesn't go right the first time.

Right now our agency is hiring young kids with no experence in life. Some of them are good and some aren't. Sometimes all that gung ho stuff you talk causes you to stand out as someone no one wants to be around for fear of not going home. Get some experence and then you can go play. I love my job and it is hard to beleive that they pay me to do it.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:23:22 AM EDT
ok, just to update all of yall,

right now im looking at marine infantry enslisted. The recruiter is telling me that i can go in as an E-3 and make E-4 by the time that i get out of basic and AIT. that would make me a fire team leader or corpral (i think?) i need to go back again today to talk to him. We had our last discussion cut short because he had a family emergency. Im not graduation till the end of july so im really in no big hurry to sign a contract.

About that guys post about me being a "squirrel", thats actually funny. Ive been called a blue flamer but never a squirrel. I dont think that enthusiasm is a curse and I'll have you know that i dont go around LOOKING to get shot at. It happened once on the beach as a result of ratting on some methed up local dealers. Ive only broken up one or two domestics in my apt and that was only when they were really loud, obviously violent and i knew that the cops were on the way. I dont have a death wish but im also not going to stand around while a tenant across the parking lot speedbags his girlfriend. The stick attack story is a funny one. I had a buddy of mine go to an oral board a few months ago and they gave him this senario

you drive past an alley and you see two cops kicking that crap out of a suspected cop murderer. What do you do.

His answer: "I would advise them that they were breaking the law by assulting a civilian and insist that they stop immediately. If they refuse to comply i would draw my weapon and repeat. If they refused to stop or resisted arrest then i would shoot them both just like i would any other criminals!"

needless to say that he didnt get the job!!
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 10:23:46 AM EDT
Ahhhh, unless things have changed quite a bit since I was in....

The highest enlistment rank they will give you is E-2 (PFC -Private 1st Class)....period.

When I went in I had 2 years of Jr ROTC, a year of college and a kick-ass ASVAB score.

I started bootcamp with a pay grade of E-2 and a rank of RECRUIT. On graduation day (MCRD San Diego) I was allowed to wear my PFC rank insignia. I stayed a PFC through out infantry school and for about 6 months after I got into my reserve unit. I was then promoted to LCpl (Lance Corporal). It was a bit early, but I was a good Marine (or so they told me).

I guess what I'm saying is that unless things have drastically changed, you will be lucky if you get to E-3 within two years after boot.

Getting to Corporal is a whole different story. That's the first rung of the NCO ladder. You have to test for it and go before a board. I'd tell you how it works, but a motorcycle accident got me honorably discharged "for the good of the Marine Corps" before I ever got to that stage.

There is no way someone can (or should be able to) become a Corporal straight out of their primary school. To be an NCO, you need both training and experience that comes with having been a Marine for a few years at least.

Bottom line, if you are looking at developing combat arms skills and leadership skills, you can't go wrong with going in like I did. By virtue of my rank, I was thrust into a leadership role as soon as I got to infantry school. Then, a while after I got into my reserve unit and proved myself, I was a fire team leader. It was an awesome time for me and I know that it absolutely helped turn me into someone suitable for a law enforcement career.

Good luck.



Originally Posted By hkusp9:
ok, just to update all of yall,

right now im looking at marine infantry enslisted. The recruiter is telling me that i can go in as an E-3 and make E-4 by the time that i get out of basic and AIT. that would make me a fire team leader or corpral (i think?) i need to go back again today to talk to him. We had our last discussion cut short because he had a family emergency. Im not graduation till the end of july so im really in no big hurry to sign a contract.

About that guys post about me being a "squirrel", thats actually funny. Ive been called a blue flamer but never a squirrel. I dont think that enthusiasm is a curse and I'll have you know that i dont go around LOOKING to get shot at. It happened once on the beach as a result of ratting on some methed up local dealers. Ive only broken up one or two domestics in my apt and that was only when they were really loud, obviously violent and i knew that the cops were on the way. I dont have a death wish but im also not going to stand around while a tenant across the parking lot speedbags his girlfriend. The stick attack story is a funny one. I had a buddy of mine go to an oral board a few months ago and they gave him this senario

you drive past an alley and you see two cops kicking that crap out of a suspected cop murderer. What do you do.

His answer: "I would advise them that they were breaking the law by assulting a civilian and insist that they stop immediately. If they refuse to comply i would draw my weapon and repeat. If they refused to stop or resisted arrest then i would shoot them both just like i would any other criminals!"

needless to say that he didnt get the job!!

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:35:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 9:22:57 AM EDT
I know that you said the BP has put you off, but you should give it a little more thought and do some research on it. I had similiar thinking, using your first fed gig as a stepping stone into a more "prestigious" agency. However, after doing a lot of research and a little time in, I realize that this is where I want to be. It's quite enjoyable and I don't have to wear a monkey suit anymore, one of the reasons I signed on in the first place.

Moral is a big issue these days, but my shift is not lacking it and we have a lot of fun together. The moral thing comes from the salty dogs who have seen their patrol go from the wild west to a "more controlled environment." Luckily, I did not have to witness the transition and it is pretty much what I expected.

As far as high speed goes, we have some units that could interest you after you put 2-3 years in. Our SRT and BORTAC teams are top notch and because of the areas that you cover and our numbers, you have a pretty good chance of landing a slot. The only thing that would stop you would be you.

I usually mention the firearms training in posts as well. I true firearms enthusiest would love it. When you get back to your station, you will have the ability to take a long arm out with you every shift, be it 870 or M4. One station in our Sector also has access to MP5's if they want them. At my station though, you can only get one of those if you are a pilot or on one of the teams. Different stations, different rules. So, you will not have to worry about facing anyone with just your pistol.

Just food for thought.

BTW - if you get in and decide that this gig isn't from you, other agencies draw heavily from BP. One guy that left recently went DEA.

Whatever you decide, good luck.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:06:01 PM EDT
I found that last post to be very intersting and well timed. I went down to South Padre Island Tx last week for spring break and i was able to talk to 2 border patroll agents for about half and hour. I told them that several local officers moaned about how cool their BP buddies jobs were and the BP agents said "Dont go into BP it sucks". Then they back stepped on that statement and asked if i had a voice recorder. After lifting my shirt and swearing that i wasnt a reporter we talked and this is the gist of what i got. They hate the politics- theyre restricted to what they can do and what policys that they are allowed to enforce. They also said that theyre patrol was a boring one and that not much happens. They mentioned that they used to have cool toys but now: the full auto was taken away from their M4's, they only have pistol resistand body armor, and their boats never work because they dont have adequate mechanics to keep them running. Apparently they have their own boats but use the coast guards docks and this was where they were coming from when i talked to them. They got a call from their supervisor during our conversation and they were complaining about how their boat had lost power steering or something and it almost hit something when they were docking. They did say that they had cool night vision. They mentioned that all the good border patrol work was in new mexico and that border patrol will hire anyone with a pulse that can complete sentences, they mentioned that it didnt even require a college degree. They also said that they both wanted out and one had applied to the DEA but decided not to go at the last minute because he didnt want to travel. He also mentioned that other federal agencys really didnt want to hire from BP ranks because they already have a hard time keeping agents. He said that if he wanted to go into another agency hed be better off quiting BP and then applying around so the other agencys wouldnt feel that theyre poaching BP agents. The best advice that he gave me was that i should go to www.usjobs.gov and apply for any job that was an 1811 which is a federal investigator. He said that once im certified i can pretty much go to any agency i want. He said apply for every 1811 job and take the fist one you get wether its for the postal service, FDA, FBI, ect. and go to Georgia for my federal training and then when i graduate it i will be much more competitive for other jobs. He said that if i tried this somebody is bound to hire me regardless of GPA and that DEA wouldnt deny me a job just because my GPA is a few tenths of a point off. If they like me Im in. Also i want to clarify that im not looking just to go kick doors down and shoot bad guys, everybody is making me sound like an action junky, im not a psychotic adrenelanin feind. I just want to fight narcotics trafficking and sales on a national level and that will inherintely require some risk and im willing to accept that risk. I never look forward to violence or conflict, i always try to find a way around it, 99% of the time Im successfull, 1% of the time im not but then Im prepared for it and willing to do what it takes to resolve it. If Quakers ran all of the dangerous criminals out of a job somehow and i had to chase pasifists around all day i might not have as many cool stories to tell my grandchildren when im old but i will be just as happy doing my job!
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:01:03 PM EDT
Politics are everywhere. Equipment doesn't make you a better cop. I can assure you, you don't have a clue what you think you know about these jobs. I do applaud your efforts in trying to gather information that will allow you to make good career decisions though.

The pen is mightier than the sword. You must use your knoggin. One mind any weapon. Stake out's suck. If you are lucky to get a position on a specialized unit. You will be the first to kick doors etc. Read human berm.

You remind me of my two fav characters. Farv, and Tackleberry. I don't wish to sound discouraging.

You should apply. Just talking about it won't get you anywhere. Law Enforcement is a "doing" profession, not a sit on your butt and contemplate profession.

Now the big question: What have you done that would make you marketable?
Any life experience?
Honor Roll, Eagle Scout, Help your community?
Why would someone want to hire you?
What's your motivation to " Fight Narcotics trafficing on a national level"?
Do you know what meth, crack, ICE, Heroin, marijuana and GHB, ecstasy etc look like?
What they do to a person?

I'm not trying to be hard. I'm trying to get you to think.. You will be asked these and other questions.

Most likely you will be polygraphed, and then there is certainly the psych. eval.

Have you applied? Any where?

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:16:08 PM EDT
Damn it man, paragraphs! I'm fairly certain they stressed good communication in school. LOL You have the inspiration but you need it tempered by maturity and experience. A short stint in the military will set you off on the right path.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:14:06 AM EDT
yeah, good lord man - work on your writing!

It's been said before but a CJ degree with a <3.00 GPA is gonna need something along with it in order for you to be competitive on a federal level. If you look at the hiring announcements you will see things like 'foreign language requirement/accounting degree/etc.

A bachelor's degree is one thing, but a measure of how successful you have been in the things you've undertaken in life if you're younger is your GPA. Sounds like college has been the major event for you thus far, without military or other life experience. Unless your academic record is stellar with membership in the odd honor society, and plans for a MA, you need to find a way to address the KSA's listed in fed announcements if you want to go that way.

So, a few options;

Military. Shoot for a job which requires a clearance and allows you the opportunity to live abroad. Keep your nose clean and be quiet for a while about how high speed you want to be. Watch and learn and then when you get the chance to be a a supervisor, learn from the good examples you've had.

Local PD. The bigger department, the better I think. More opportunity and probably busier. I could not have done the job fresh out of college, but if you feel you can, go for it.

More school. The hardest option financially and probably mentally as well for you right now. Who wants to sign back up for more school immediately after undergrad. Besides, I've heard it said that people are more effective and motivated if they have a few years of work experience before heading back to school.

I don't think I've said anything that hasn't already been posted, but it sounds like you are on a military track. Good luck with it, it is a good deal, you will get vet pref points, some leadership training, and will have a stable job history by the time you're through, all of which will stand you in good stead when you send out Fed LE apps.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:21:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hkusp9:
The recruiter is telling me that i can go in as an E-3 and make E-4 by the time that i get out of basic and AIT. that would make me a fire team leader or corpral (i think?) i need to go back again today to talk to him. We had our last discussion cut short because he had a family emergency. Im not graduation till the end of july so im really in no big hurry to sign a contract.



I dont know what Marine recruiter you are talking to, but when I enlisted(with a degree) you are an E-2, and AIT is only in the ARMY! Also 03XX is one of the slowest promoting OC fields right now...Do some research on your own.

-BJohnson
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:35:11 PM EDT
lol, sorry about the total lack of paragraphs and a general lack of coherence in thought, i just got back from spring break and im still trying to recover, that and i used up all my paragraph structuring writing a bunch of papers today!

Im not saying that border patrol is a bad job, im saying that everyone that i have talked to who works in border patrol says its a bad job here in TX. They know better than i do so if you want to yell at me for talking out of my ass then yell at those poor guys first! They did tell me that one of my ICE buddies has been lying to me though so i may go have to go back to him to double check some of my stories.

I think right now im going to focus on graduating with a 2.95 and then i might apply to every 1811 job that i can find in July. While im doing that i might think about going local, or even BP to strengthen my resume.

Im starting to shy away from the military and local LE option again because the 1811 shotgun application idea sounds more promising and it might be a faster way of getting where i want to go.

Someone asked me what i know about drugs, first id like to say that even if i kept my head in the sand Im still a college student and as such i routinely see every drug made. I also serve as a kind of freelance CI in a few local areas. Im not going to call myself a snitch or a paid informant because i dont go out and actively look for drugs; but if i hear of someone in the area thats making a name for themselves ill go snoop around and if it looks promising ill let the authorities know. Ive been doing this since junior year high school as a hobby of sorts and ive helped LE make some pretty substantial busts. Just last Saturday in south padre for spring break i was peeing in a McDonalds bathroom when a 19-20 yr old Hispanic male came in and asked if anyone wanted some "fire". I inquired and he actually produced 2 dime sacs out of his pocket of what looked like decent red hair Mexican marijuana. i told him that my wallet was in the car(i drive a truck) and that since i just made it on the island i would like to stock up for the week. i told him that i needed about $50 worth and the dumbass said that he would have to go to his jeep for that much. I asked him where he parked and he was also dumb enough to tell me. After that i went and grabbed my 2 way radios from the truck and gave one to the officer outside who was working security, I went across the block out of eyesight and took my time describing the suspect, jeep, and weed. They ended up getting a little over two ounces on the kid and they said they would keep an eye out for his buddies during the week, in the end i thought that it turned out pretty well. My main concern was not getting spotted talking to the officer and the walkie talkies worked well in that respect.

To answer your question on why i want to work in narcotics, ive had several friends become addicted to a variety of drugs, junior high sweetheart was into coke, entire cross country team in high school was on weed, one of my best friends went to prison for using his house for a heroin stash house(i didnt know what he did till he got arrested) Drugs have never directly impacted my life but they have hurt many people that i love and i view them as a much more significant danger to the average American than terrorism or general crimes like auto theft and domestic battery. In addition, narcotics have a detrimental effect to our society and others at a broad global scale that is unique. Narcotics fund terrorist and guerilla activities in south america and the middle east that harm millions of innocent people. For decades the FARC used narcotics to fund a guerilla war against the government and against the natives of columbia, also "Pablo Escobar", and one of Afghanistan’s most profitable exports is opium that both directly and indirectly funds terrorism. The narcotics industry is also violent in nature, drug runners and smugglers in mexico kill each other whole-sale to maintain power. then it comes in to america and we kill each other for it. Most gang activity in the last 3 decades stemmed from drugs. Gangs kill to protect the turf that they sold on, they killed rival sellers, then the addicts kill and steal to afford it, then when addicts get the drugs it slowly kills the them too.
Essentially i view drugs as being the most caustic element to society on a global level. Ive seen what it does to friends and i can only imagine what it does in its totality to the world. I want to fight it in the most effective way that i can and right now i believe that the DEA is the one working on the broadest scope. Later if i find that INTERPOL or some kind of U.N. police force is doing a better job then i will go there. Basically drugs alone hurt more than terrorism, national robbery and burglary rates, weapons smuggling, ect. and they also fuel all of these other crimes. If i fight drugs ill be fighting all of those other things too.

Finally id like to address an underlying issue with this post about experience and maturity, I know what job i want to do and im going to find the quickest way to do it even if many of you took the long route of military or local law enforcement to get there. Just becasue most people had to work in a jail or work in a small PD before they went federal, doesent mean that yall have to make me do that too for life to be fair. Im going to try to take short cuts and half ass my career development to sneak into the DEA at 21. If i get there under prepared to cope with the sight of dead bodies, if i dont have a grasp of how to play politics with my co workers, if i dont have ten years of LE experience to break my spirit and make me think that im too small to make a large difference, THEN THATS FINE! Im willing to be the youngest most inexperienced runt in my DEA graduating class thats still a little naive and it might take me 2 or three years to catch up with the rest the special agents. But Id rather spend 21-25 in the DEA getting my feet wet to Federal LE and the world in general; instead of spending 21-30 "building a resume" by chasing small town wife beaters and people with warrants for speeding tickets. Many of you will be angry at me for taking shortcuts in my professional development but im willing to make up for that with hard work and dedication in my dream job!

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:39:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BJohnson383:

Originally Posted By hkusp9:
The recruiter is telling me that i can go in as an E-3 and make E-4 by the time that i get out of basic and AIT. that would make me a fire team leader or corpral (i think?) i need to go back again today to talk to him. We had our last discussion cut short because he had a family emergency. Im not graduation till the end of july so im really in no big hurry to sign a contract.



I dont know what Marine recruiter you are talking to, but when I enlisted(with a degree) you are an E-2, and AIT is only in the ARMY! Also 03XX is one of the slowest promoting OC fields right now...Do some research on your own.

-BJohnson



and yes i dont spell check or proof read as much as i should either, ive been lazy lately, sorry guys!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:51:10 PM EDT
I didn't have the honor of being in the military but my father and my sister and brother all were enlisted.

Their advice? Go officer.



Also, can you join up and ask for Military police right off? Seems a military police background would be a great leveraging point.

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