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Posted: 2/26/2006 1:13:14 PM EDT
I've never been a big fan, but am coming to the realization that they occupy a useful niche in force escalation.

I'm not interested in the lightweight crap.

I'm not looking to go cheap- just looking for advice on what works for you guys.

I seem to remember handling a 2 piece monadnock a few years ago that had some nice heft to it, but can't remember the name of the model, and can't seem to find it online because all the pics are tiny. Or it's no longer made.

Any online dealers you fellas had luck with?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:23:57 PM EDT
ASP wuppin sticks are the best, the longer the better.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:24:43 PM EDT
Asp 26"
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:34:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 3:47:37 PM EDT by DasRonin]
I don't understand the evolution of modern impact weapons.

Wood was the ONLY night stick to have. Metal flashlights were taken from officers because they were being used as batons, and hitting people with metal was bad. Cheap plactic flashlights were the only ones allowed, could not be trusted with a metal flashlight.

Now it is OK to hit a person with a narrow steel rod!

I am not understanding the transition!

Oh yeah... I carried a wooden baton for a few years, then a Monadnock PR-24. Went federal and was given a lead filled leather slapper, then a steel rod... er ah, I mean a expandable baton. The lead filled leather slapper was then prohibited from use, too excessive. (How is lead filled leather more excessive than a steel rod???

ASP is a good brand by-the-way.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:45:43 PM EDT
Expandable batons are very useful, not only for striking but for submissions as well if you're competent in their use. There is also a certain intimidation factor achieved in deploying one (just make sure to swing up instead of down).

I am a big fan of the Monadnock Autolock. Monadnock expandable batons in general are an improvement over the ASP, and tha autolock adds another dimension to the improvement. I'm sure you've seen people who want to collapse their baton that have to bash it on the ground several times to loosen it, and then "stab" it into the ground to close it. With the Autolock this is not necessary. The Autolock has a button on the bottom that you press in order to close the baton. Because of this you can also open and lock the baton by grabbing the tip with your weak hand and extending the baton.

I sold police supplies for several years, and we carried both the Asp and Monadnock. The Monadnock was greatly preferred by those that tried it, and the gip held up better too.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:35:36 PM EDT
I have a 31" chrome ASP,(shows up GOOD on video) and have used it with authority once. Pepper spray and tasers have slowed our baton use way down.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:53:34 PM EDT
Asp 26" for me.

I've used mine several times as a probe for dumpster diving and other tasks were I either can't reach with my hands or don't want to touch.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:07:36 PM EDT
What about the Koga sticks?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:51:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 6:53:24 PM EDT by mef223]
used both, like wood. Swing-and-a-miss injured my wrist by overtourquing with the asp, so i went back to the old hickory shampoo. Problem is, i don't always grab it and bring it to every call I go to. Break it out for family disturbances, drunks, etc.. almost never for car stops unless im backing someone else up. I also have an asp that sits in my bag on the passenger's seat. Sometimes I'll grab it and just stick it in a sap pocket. I'd like to get a diamondwood baton in about 28 inches as soon as i can find one.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 8:18:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
I am a big fan of the Monadnock Autolock.



+1

My dept. liked them so much, they are slowly getting rid of all the ASPs.

I carried an ASP and am glad I was purchased the Monadnock (several years ago).

No collapsing issue with repetitive strikes like you have with the ASP, easier to close, and easier to open.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 11:20:58 PM EDT
The wooden stick was pretty good but impractical to carry, esp. in plain clothes. The ASP is good because it's small and easy to carry when closed. I have heard that the Maglight which was everyone's favorite, mine included, was taken away from us not because you aren't allowed to hit someone with a metal object but because it wasn't designed for that purpose no matter how practical and convenient it was and that counts for a lot in legal issues (civil suites).
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 11:32:51 PM EDT
cop swung at me with one of them i just grabbed it an threw it in the bed of my truck
stung a little.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 11:57:43 PM EDT
I use the Winchester 21". Now that is a baton, nice and heavy with a big round tip on the end. I previously used the ASP 26" on a couple of people who didn't seem to notice I was using it. Using the Winchester, they notice.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:01:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RDP:
Originally Posted By in_burrito:
I am a big fan of the Monadnock Autolock.



+1

+2
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:09:05 AM EDT
I have a Monadnock "Detective" series 26" baton. It's a standard friction-lock. I think it has a nicer grip than the ASP. I don't like the poofy foam type grip, I prefer the thinner textured grip of the Monadnock. I had a problem with it a while back. When closing it one day, the grip cap popped off. It took the threads of the handle with it. Had to send it back to Monadnock, but they replaced the handle and cap with the newest style and I had it back in a week or less. Great customer service and no problems since. MJD
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:21:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By highwayman:
I think it has a nicer grip than the ASP. I don't like the poofy foam type grip, I prefer the thinner textured grip of the Monadnock.


Every time I put both in a customer's hands they prefered the Monadnock grip.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:01:08 AM EDT
I love my monadnock 26" with the hindi baton cap on the end.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:01:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 9:59:38 AM EDT by ChickenKiller]

Originally Posted By billy_bob:
cop swung at me with one of them i just grabbed it an threw it in the bed of my truck
stung a little.



I carried an ASP 26". The first time I used it, about 8 yrs ago, I got in a fight with a 6'1" 290# steer wrestler. I used pepper spray, hands, ASP (3 'wicked hard' times to his left knee cap) then back to hands. I finally had to do a belly to back suplex on him to get him down. While on the ground I went for an armlock with the ASP, he popped it loose from my hand and threw it to the ditch. (Nothing Like Training) Where you touch them with it and they fall over in pain. This guy didn't act like he felt a thing.

Fight lasted close to 10 minutes before backup got there and we got him cuffed.

One of the guys that backed me was a deputy and has been around for over 25 years or so as a PD officer then deputy. I told him about hitting that sucker with the ASP. Here was his seasoned advice about the expandable batons:

"Man expandable batons are good for mean dogs, and small children that's it."

He carries the wooden straight baton with the rib seperater on the end.

Looking back, I have never seen an expandable baton work too well in an all out fight, yes it hurts them, but it won't stop them.

I now carry a Monadnock with the power tip end, I like it because there is more weight on the business end. I like wooden batons are better, just not as convient to carry, there is one in the car. I haven't used it to hit someone, just used it as a show of force, and pain compliance.

sorry so long
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:19:02 PM EDT
I also have a 26" monadnock. I have used it several times, but mostly for killing racoons in areas where I couldn't discharge my gun....lol. Other then that I've used it once as a use of force and honestly I wasn't too impressed. People can take a whooping from the baton and they just keep fighting. I'll still hold on to it once we get tasers only for those racoon cases, digging through garbage or if I really need to reach for something. Otherwise, I honestly don't put much into it.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:42:58 PM EDT
Do you use them for pain compliance or to break bones? I knew a SoCal deputy who wasn't into the pain compliance thing...he loved his!
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:22:07 PM EDT
I'd like to ASP you a few questions.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:26:43 PM EDT
Another +1 for Monadnock Autolock.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:30:20 AM EDT
When I first started working I carried an ASP 21". Until the first time I had to use it on a domestic. Due to an unbelieveable head up the a$$ move by the Sheriff I was sent to a heated domestic without backup.

I arrive at the scene and find a white male subject 6'1" tall 240 not an ounce of fat 19 yr old who had slapped his high school sweetheart and knocked her and the newborn to the ground. After talking to her while keeping him in sight I have heard enough for probable cause to hook him up. I talk to him and he seems calm, level headed, yada yada yada. He asks if he has to go to jail and I made the mistake of telling him yes before I have him in a position to make it happen without any fuss. Wellllllll he brings his hands up into a boxer stance and is standing about 10 ft away. I spray him with Freeze+P straight into his eyes, nose, mouth area. He just wipes his face with the back of his hand and advances towards me. Zing, out like the proverbial lightsabre, out comes the 21" ASP with my right hand while my left keys the mike and I call for back up. Perp gets close and I drop the hammer on the inside of his left thigh just above the knee. His response was to laugh and say I hit like a little girl. The next strike is straight on the knee cap with the tip. Again he just laughs. We dance around the yard with me not being stupid enough to go head on with him.

After it was all over I switched to a 26" because I did not want anyone to get that close to me again. The kid was on a roid rage and eventhough a shot was fired by me that night no one got hurt mor than some severe bruising. (him) The jailers said he could hardly walk the next day. By the way, I was 5'10" 165# with a 12% body fat at that time and I hurt my back swinging that short baton so hard.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:12:12 PM EDT
thanks for the advice.

i've got a 26" autolock on the way.



those "failure to stop" accounts bring to mind one of the reason's i never bothered with one.

my former bouncer buddy over in west palm, who IIRC, was a 500# bencher, responded to a call, ended up creasing some hoodlum's skull with an asp, and still had to send rounds downrange to eliminate the threat.

the consensus seems to be that the collapsables are ineffective when it comes to causing structural damage, rather than just causing pain. see: drugs, really tough dudes

another vote for 135gr corbon, BTW
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 1:03:28 AM EDT
If you have to have a collapsible, the Autolock is the way to go.

In my experience (2 ASP batons, PR24, Autolock, ironwood straight stick), the Collapsible batons are toast after 1 good encounter with either a bad guy, or a bag. They break at the joints.

I prefer my Ironwood straight stick. No breaky. It's triangular in shape, so you're usually striking with an edge, which inflicts more damage.

Most of our depts are very taser dependent now. This is good, but our DT program (what little we had) has suffered tremendously.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 1:15:31 AM EDT
CHEAPER THAN DIRT>.

Good Price

like 20 bux

Works Great..
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:25:24 PM EDT
For the last couple of years I have been carrying the Winchester expandable baton, 26" length. It makes a ASP look like a toothpick. The Winchester has large strike head and heavy. thicker diameter tubes. It is all business but heavy. My partners who have the ASP cannot believe how inferior there batons are compared to a Winchester.

I also have a traditional 26" Diamonwood (sp?) straight baton from Koga. That one stays in the car. Whatever baton you choose just be sure to train with it and know how to properly use it.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:35:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By highwayman:
I have a Monadnock "Detective" series 26" baton. It's a standard friction-lock. I think it has a nicer grip than the ASP. I don't like the poofy foam type grip, I prefer the thinner textured grip of the Monadnock. I had a problem with it a while back. When closing it one day, the grip cap popped off. It took the threads of the handle with it. Had to send it back to Monadnock, but they replaced the handle and cap with the newest style and I had it back in a week or less. Great customer service and no problems since. MJD




+1 Asp will testify against you court. Monadnock are the best.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:10:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OKLAHOMA_LAWMAN:

Originally Posted By highwayman:
I have a Monadnock "Detective" series 26" baton. It's a standard friction-lock. I think it has a nicer grip than the ASP. I don't like the poofy foam type grip, I prefer the thinner textured grip of the Monadnock. I had a problem with it a while back. When closing it one day, the grip cap popped off. It took the threads of the handle with it. Had to send it back to Monadnock, but they replaced the handle and cap with the newest style and I had it back in a week or less. Great customer service and no problems since. MJD




+1 Asp will testify against you court. Monadnock are the best.



ASP testify against you???
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:20:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OKLAHOMA_LAWMAN:
+1 Asp will testify against you court.



Can't leave us hanging like that.

Did you use the ASP in a way which goes against their training?
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 8:18:19 PM EDT
+ 1 on ASP 26 inch with the funky steel hook cap.

though Taser use has been outweighing baton use in my agency of late.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:36:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By justice23:

Originally Posted By OKLAHOMA_LAWMAN:
+1 Asp will testify against you court.



Can't leave us hanging like that.

Did you use the ASP in a way which goes against their training?





When I was in the Academy, the DT guys told us that ASP is covering their ass so, they will tesity against you in court.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 7:35:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 7:35:31 AM EDT by NorCal_LEO]
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:10:47 PM EDT
Hard to find but winchester makes a heavy 29" expandable. One of our local shops got a few in and they sold fast at about $110.00 each. I have looked online and can't find them. If you really wnat to know where to find one call Code-3 uniforms in Bakersfield CA they should be able to help. I carry the ASP because with the taser and other crap i just can't seem to find room for my diamond wood. But hittin someone with an ASP is like spanking a kid with a small twig...lots of welps but likke effect.
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