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Posted: 2/7/2006 5:20:31 PM EDT
I have always bought Sig pistols,and never gave a second thought to Glock, HK,or anyone else. But I want somthing new, larger than a 9mm, with hi cap mags, around $700 to spend, maybe a little more. What would you guys get? Please base your opinions, on personal experience, good and bad, plus model #, and I will web search for more info. ...........I'm thinking about the Para hi cap 45, maybe even 40cal, or 10mm. Thanks in advance
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:29:11 PM EDT
I've had a Glock .40 since 1991 and wouldn't trade it for anything but a SIG 226, maybe in .357sig or .40. Can't go wrong with a .45 though.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:34:46 PM EDT
I'm not real familiar with Glocks, what mod# is it? I don't have anything against them, I just always loved Sigs, and want somthing new, and different. Thanks.....?Treeman
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:36:18 PM EDT
Me being a .45 kinda guy, I say look at the SW99 and the HK USP. I like the G21 but I like these better.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:37:27 PM EDT
Model 22. If your comfortable with the SIG, stay with it, I personally love them and I shoot better with them. I like the Glock for their simplicity.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:50:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 5:51:52 PM EDT by sta1treeman]
No doubt, on being comfortable with the sig, I just want a larger cal., and if I become as comfortable, and proffecient, I may change carry gun, but not until lots of practice. What about the XD, or XP?, I can't remember which, or maker, but it also sounded interesting. I have only handled one HK, and it seemed really bulky, I'm 6'2, and 240, with big hands, and it seemed a little to full. But I like a gun, that has a fatter grip, but not that fat. My 228, has a hogue added, and feels like an extension of my hand.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:55:15 PM EDT
Your talking about the Sprinfield XD. I've handled one, it's ok. The Glock .45 would probably work, if you wanted a Glock. The grip is slightly larger than the Model 22 as is the slide and you can still add a Hogue to it.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:57:08 PM EDT
Looked up glock 22, and I like the specs, and the ability to have 17rds. I go by the school of thought, that more is better IMO. I also read reliability problems with glocks, is this over blown? I kinda think it is, to many people carry them.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:00:58 PM EDT
Never had a malfunction in either of my Glocks. Most are due to poor maintanence or ammo. The G22 is .40 and the G21 is .45. I think the G21 holds 13 rounds. Thats alot of lead.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:04:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MPD165:
Never had a malfunction in either of my Glocks. Most are due to poor maintanence or ammo. The G22 is .40 and the G21 is .45. I think the G21 holds 13 rounds. Thats alot of lead.

Thanks, I was doing a search on them, and 13rds is enough for me, also looked at the XD, what do you think about .357 vs 45?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:11:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 6:12:58 PM EDT by MPD165]
The .357sigs ballistics are simular to the .357 magnum and uses he same mags and pistol frame as the .40, its a hot round I think around 1300fps with a 125 gr bullet.. You can never go wrong with a .45 and 230 gr hollow points.

The .45 would be more controllable.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:11:57 PM EDT
Kinda up in the air over 17 rds of 40, vs 13 rds of 45, is the performance of the two loads that much different? I'm leaning to the 45, besides my 1911, and steyr m40, everthing i have is 9mm, I have never fired the m40, and with the steyr ban, i figure i will let it sit, it may or may not go up in value, but I don't need it, so sitting on it, is not a problem, I got it in a two- fer deal, along with m9 for $600. I have shot the m9, and like it, but it isn't as natural as the 228
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:14:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MPD165:
The .357sigs ballistics are simular to the .357 magnum and uses he same mags and pistol frame as the .40, its a hot round I think around 1300fps with a 125 gr bullet.. You can never go wrong with a .45 and 230 gr hollow points.

230gr, deffinetly falls into my more is better thoughts, strong case for the 45.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:17:26 PM EDT
IMO its always shot placement. The .40's record has been good with the lighter bullets, 155 and 165 grs. all at 1100 to 1200 fps. The .45 is much slower at around 860 fps with the 230 gr hollowpoints. Its always been my experience that every caliber has the golden bullet, weight combined with velocity, even the 9mm with 124gr hollowpoints is a great round.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:17:35 PM EDT
My 1911, is a CD, fun shooter, but the take down pin came out while firing at the range one day, that killed my confidence in it as far as carry, it was a cheap buy also, so I don't feel bad about getting it, just don't want to rely on it.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:20:35 PM EDT
That is a weakness of that system. Simplicity is the key. If there is less to break it is less likely to break.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:27:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MPD165:
IMO its always shot placement. The .40's record has been good with the lighter bullets, 155 and 165 grs. all at 1100 to 1200 fps. The .45 is much slower at around 860 fps with the 230 gr hollowpoints. Its always been my experience that every caliber has the golden bullet, weight combined with velocity, even the 9mm with 124gr hollowpoints is a great round.

You are right on that, I can place shots very well with the 228, and have no doubt it would do the job. This is a discretionary buy, that is why I want to go larger cal. and different brand, just to have somthing to re-spark my hand gun /range enthusiasim. Practicing with what you carry is invaluble, but gets a little ho-hum after a while. I think anyone who practices regulary would agree. again JMO
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:31:13 PM EDT
I would buy the Glock 23. Throw on some night sights and a custom trigger job. Perfect CCW.

-MEI
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:32:29 PM EDT
You might have problems adjusting to the Glocks grip angle at first but with a little practice they are very accurate. I carried a Sig 226 at the other agency I worked for and never shot below a 98. When I went back to the Glock I lost some points but with regular practice I'm back into the high 90's.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:49:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 6:51:49 PM EDT by sta1treeman]

Originally Posted By MPD165:
You might have problems adjusting to the Glocks grip angle at first but with a little practice they are very accurate. I carried a Sig 226 at the other agency I worked for and never shot below a 98. When I went back to the Glock I lost some points but with regular practice I'm back into the high 90's.

That is with the G22?......Looked at the HK USP. and it holds 12rds of 45, I think GSI, is dealing HKs now, and they are local, so I may go check on of them out, but you have me seiously considering the Glock 22. Just for giggles can you get a 30rd mag for the Glock 22? I go for accuracy, and reliability #1, fit #2, but I like the ability to buy add ons, that is another area wher Glocks seem to excel, there is a lot of after market stuff for a Glock, more so than a Sig.............I have handled Glocks, and shot a few, and the grips are a lot different than the Sig, I am sure I could get used to them, but the Sig does seem to have a more natural fit.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:56:42 PM EDT
Yes, the G22 and I saw a 30 rounder somewhere. The add on part is nice. Glock makes alot of that stuff themselves. Leave it to the Austrians. If your conciedering it for a Duty weapon, the G27, baby .40 Glock is a great back up and the full size mags work in it, too.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:08:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MPD165:
Yes, the G22 and I saw a 30 rounder somewhere. The add on part is nice. Glock makes alot of that stuff themselves. Leave it to the Austrians. If your conciedering it for a Duty weapon, the G27, baby .40 Glock is a great back up and the full size mags work in it, too.

Does the G27, or baby Glock come in 45, and still take the full size mags? I have a 232, as a small CCW, 380 is small, but the 232, is a GREAT shooter, it is extremely accurate, and very compact, you can carry it with shorts and a t-shirt, and it is still totally concealed, don't know if you ever had the chance to shoot one, but I can't imagine anyone not loving that little pistol.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:24:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 7:28:02 PM EDT by sta1treeman]
What about Para Ord? 45, double stack. What is the quality, and reliability of Para? Price?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:27:27 AM EDT
Yes, all of the full size Glocks have a baby Glock counterpart. I'm not sure if the .45 baby Glock has a double stack mag or not. The G27, compact, G23, mid-size, and G22, full size. All of the .40 series Glocks will use the full size mags, 15 rounders. The smaller pistols will use the mags of the larger ones in the same caliber. The mag designs and catches are all the same. The only difference is the length and number of rounds carried. The G21 is the model number for the full size .45. I'm not sure of the model number for the compact .45. Any of the compact Glocks are good for CCW. One of our undercover guys wears a G27 with a t-shirt and shorts. The 232 is a great little pistol and is probably slightly thinner than the Glock compacts. As far as the Para Ordinance goes, I haven't had much experience with them, but I haven't heard any negative stuff either. One of the advantages of the Glock system is also the price. You can probably get 2 guns for the price of 1 of the others. I've seen G22's going for anywhere from $340 to $390. It all really comes down to what fells right to you. Most of what you have mentioned is going to be quality. The only question that you might have to have answered is if your department has any restrictions on brands. I have heard of some departments not liking the Glock, or others for that matter, or having a problem with single action pistol, 1911 styles. Go to your local dealer and handle all of the ones your interested in and shoot the ones that you can. That will tell you what you really want to know. I don't know if there any ranges up there that allow you to rent guns to shoot at their range, but you might look into that as well.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:33:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 6:35:01 AM EDT by highdraglowspeed]
Carried a Glock 30 .45 for years. Good reliable gun. Ergonomics are different from the sig though. Sigs are great guns. If you shoot it well, then I would say look at another in a 40 or 45 in a smaller pkg.

I carry a Glock 22 and a 27 BUG for wk. Off duty I carry a Glock 23 during the fall and winter and early spring. I carry the 27 in the hottest part of the summer. Concealment issues. These are all .40's and I shoot them well.

I wish I could have kept carrying the 30. It was a great gun.

HK's were nothing but probs. in the .40, Don't know if they wk'd out the probs. Agency dumped them
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:53:09 AM EDT
I have 2 carry guns I've been very happy with. A Kahr PM9, and a Glock 36. The PM9 fits in my pocket like a 32, or 380, and is easy to coseal in the summer when I am wearing shorts, and a t-shirt. It's also a nice high quality accurate pistol. The G36 is pretty easy to conseal with a flannel shirt, and is also a nice quality accurate pistol. Both are very light weight as well.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:28:15 AM EDT
Glock .40. I personally carry the model 21 .45, which I think is a great gun. For the price range I would say your best bet is a Glock.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:36:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 7:39:25 AM EDT by FROST18E]
I carry a glock because I have to. I carry the Glock 21 because I want the .45 ACP. I prefer wood and steel to tactical tupperware and would carry a quality 1911 if able to. It may only carry 7-8 rounds depending on the mags you get, but thats plenty. I say if you need more than that than its time to hit the range and do some practicing!

ETA for the money you want to spend buy the Springfield XD in .45 ACP. You don't have to get used to the f-ed up cant on the glock grip. Its the same angle as on a 1911. I have an XD in 9mm for plinking and it is a great little shooter. Can't beat the price either.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:55:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 11:02:11 AM EDT by sta1treeman]
The spingfield xd, is on my list, along with the para,and glock. I'm headed to the courthouse shortly, and then to Simmons(good gun store) I plan on handling all of them, I can't shoot them there, I can only think of one indoor range/store around here, and I'm not sure if they are still open. I'm 99% sure, I'll stay with the 228 for carry, this is a "want one " buy, just for somthing different, no hurry, and no restrictions, beyond price. Like I said, I never gave much thought or attention to glocks, they have sparked an interest lately, along with the other hi-cap 45's that are out. I don't claim to be a super marksman, but, I hit what I aim for and like the hi-cap for just in case. As long as you don't sacrafice quality, and reliability for more rds, I don't know why anyone would want to carry fewer, JMO.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:59:15 AM EDT
I do appreciate everyone's input, and it is all noted, I may not buy for awhile, but everyone has given me some good things to think about. Thanks.......Treeman
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 7:54:17 AM EDT
I carried a Glock 23 on duty for about 7 years, switched to a Single stack Colt 1911 .or about 2 years. I must say I do love the 45ACP. Big Fat and heavy. I currently carry a SIG P229R .357sig. It has been just over a year and can say I think I have found the one! Same capacity as a 40s&W, less felt recoil IMHO, and 357sig is hauling ass! To hell and back reliability!

Saw a glock fail at the range on Wednesday. I had three guys on the 15yd line and looked to my left. The guy on the end is looking at his Glock with a puzzled look. I see him push on the barrel and the rear of the slide raises off of the frame... Cease Fire! We clear the weapon and pull the slide off the frame. Little metal parts fall out (yes Glock has some metal in it). The two rear frame rails (small little metal thingys molded in plastic) had broken off! The Glock is the model 35 40S&W. He told me the gun had @ 1500 rounds through it. He called the factory and they told him they had a run of bad frames or something, but that they had already made a new frame for him with his serial number on it. Since he was not the original owner of the gun they had no way of contacting him. They are making things right.d

Another observation on Glocks. The bigger the caliber the bigger the grip. If you have smaller hands the 45 may be a little fat for your hand ( the reason I had a 40... born with girly hands)

I have fired several Para's and will say I liked them a lot.

Sig is still my choice

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 10:32:52 AM EDT
Stick with the SIG, I only wish I could carry one. Department policy makes us carry Glocks, on and off duty.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 10:46:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Docsprague:
Department policy makes us carry Glocks, on and off duty.



Isn't that a load of shit. Our department (phoenix) has the same policy. Oh well, thats what you get when non-shooters are in charge of policy decisions. Once I get my full house custom 1911 back though I'll be carrying that off duty and the dept can go F--- themselves.

I think management has stock in glock......
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 2:27:13 PM EDT
I went with the Spinfield XD 45acp, 13+1. I handled the Glocks, Para, and the Sringfield fit my hand better. I bought 200gr Hornady +P TAP, for carry. I got it Wed. afternoon, and put 100rds through it Thurs, and 200 today, with zero problems. I shot from 12yds supported first, it grouped well, but its about 4" left of POA... At 25yds, all shots were center mass. It needs a little sight adjustment, but other than that, I like it. I won't be boxing up the Sig any time soon, but I love having a 14rd 45. Someone said if you need more than 7 or 8 rds, you should spend more time at the range. IMO, If you can't hit your target, you need more range time. Now that the AWB is gone, and hi-caps are available again, why can't we all be happy about it? I don't like a fellow gunner telling me how many rds I need, any more than an anti gunner telling me how many rds I need. If the libs read some of the posts (almost daily) where one of our fellow gunners say, "You don't need more than 7or 8 rds", they could use our own words as a reason to ban hi-caps again. I can see Hitlery now, saying, " There are many people on one of the largest, and most respected firearm internet sites, that agree, there is no good reason for a firearm to hold more than 7 or 8 rounds". 1 rd may get the job done, and having 6 or 7 extra is good, but having 13 extra is better. IMO.....Treeman
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:50:07 PM EDT
I couldn't agree more. If its available use it. It sounds as if you made an educated choice. You can talk about guns all day, but until you handle them you will never have all of hte info. Good luck with your new pistol.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:58:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 6:04:23 PM EDT by sta1treeman]
MPD165, Thanks for all of your input. I went in with the Glock 21 in mind, and thought thats what I would come home with, but the XD fit my hand better, I had researched them, and only found one negative report, and that was on finish, not function, so I felt pretty good about it. I have been pleased so far. I really do like the idea of having 14rds of 45, instead of 9mm. My 228 has always been reliable, and when I shoot the XD more, and get more confident with its performance, I will probably switch, but that will be after a few hundred more rds..........I was looking for a 30 or so mag for the XD, and ended up finding a 20rd mag for my 228, I had never heard of a 20rd 228 mag, but I have one on order.From copesdist.com pretty cool site. Thanks again, Treeman
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:15:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 2:16:22 PM EDT by pigmypuncher]
For what it's worth, Sig used to sell a factory 30rnd mag for the 226 in 9mm (if you looking for that uber back up mag). To get it, you had to provide a letter from your agency and I believe it cost around $30.00. It wasn't listed on their web site, I had to contact them for the info (several years back). You might call Sig directly to be sure there isn't something available that isnt' on their web site for a larger cal...

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:42:22 AM EDT
Glock
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 2:44:35 PM EDT
Glock 21. If you want, get a second drop in barrel chambered for 10mm, then you can shoot two big bore calibers through the same gun. 10mm is pretty damn hot too.


Themis
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:41:58 PM EDT
my primary for years (and I still have it) is the sig 220 .45 auto. I did carry my SA 1911 for awhile also. I know there is only 8 rounds in the sig and 7 in the 1911 but I wouldn't give up either one if I had the choice. Now I am forced to carrie a 9mm for the federal game and I can't stand it. I have a freind and fellow officer (he is still city) who has the HK and it is also a very nice shooter.
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