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Posted: 2/3/2006 11:12:42 PM EDT
A lady friend of mine is a Police Officer. I've been riding her nonstop for the last couple weeks ever since I learned she does not carry a weapon off duty.

She has finally relented, and agreed that she should be carrying. Yippee, I get to take her gun shopping. she doesn't know what she wants, so I'm taking her to a local gun shop that carries everything under the sun.

She is not a tiny lady. Athletic, stout, and has good curves in the right places. Concealment is an issue. She dresses like a lady should (not slutty, but you can defiantly tell she is all woman when she is out of uniform)

Her duty weapon is a Sig 226 in .40

She wants to carry in a shoulder rig. I'm trying to steer her away from that. I'm trying to convince her that her off duty carry should be close to where she carries her duty weapon (that whole muscle memory thing).

Any suggestions on pistol and carry solution?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:58:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 12:01:01 AM EDT by AZ-K9]

Originally Posted By GunnFixr:
I've been riding her nonstop....


She is not a tiny lady. Athletic, stout, and has good curves in the right places. She dresses like a lady should






Ahem...

Most coppers I know that have a fair amount of time on now carry a Smith Airweight 2" wheel gun. (I'm included in that group.)

I used to carry a Sig 232, but found the combination of the anemic 380, overall heavy weight of the gun to favor the "better" 38, albeit with less ammo and slower reload potential.

A 228 would suit her as well, lighter than the 226 and same ergos.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:08:11 AM EDT
For all the "wimmenz got no use being coppers" types, I present their idea of an "off duty carry" item:





For the rest of us around here, I'd 2nd this:


Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:08:12 AM EDT
I hardly carry off duty but when I do I carry a Kel-Tec P32. I know I'll get flamed for this but it is better than nothing. I might try and pick up one of those Taurus 9MM revolvers this year though. My duty is a Glock 19 and I have a Glock 26 but they really don't conceal well.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:17:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BeachPatrol:
I hardly carry off duty but when I do I carry a Kel-Tec P32. I know I'll get flamed for this but it is better than nothing. I might try and pick up one of those Taurus 9MM revolvers this year though. My duty is a Glock 19 and I have a Glock 26 but they really don't conceal well.



I would strongly suggest upgrading to the Keltec P3AT for such a small increase the gain us great. I bought the P3AT and had a chance to compare it to the P32. I also carry a Kimber Ultra CDP II off duty. My duty gun is a Kimber Pro TLE/RL II.

For the Lady I would have her check out the Keltec P3AT, Kahr PM9 or PM40, or smaller revolvers (38 spl). They also make some concealed carry belt holsters gears towards a woman's body as well.

Mike
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:01:31 AM EDT
Sounds like you have already convinced her but show her this to solidify it.

lightfighter.net/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/2191024651/m/1011060502

Also if she wants something close to her duty gun try a Sig 229 in 40 cal. It is a bit smaller but still shoots similar to the 226
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:32:37 AM EDT
Why not just carry the P226 she carries on duty in a good IWB or OWB holster? When off-duty I carry my P220 in a Desantis Thumb Break holster and a S&W M60 snubby in my weak hand front pocket. Another option for her is the P239.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:15:26 AM EDT
I carry a Kahr PM40.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:58:26 AM EDT
I've suggested the Polymer Khar as well as the SW36.

Thanks for the replies.

As for IWB, she won't go that way. A man can get away with carrying IWB, it is a lot harder for a woman to do so.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:57:31 AM EDT
What gun she's going to carry is the least of your worries (within reason--like no Desert Eagles ).

You should be much more concerned about HOW she's going to carry, at least if she wants to dress like a women, or at least the women I know (if you'll please excuse my gender stereotyping!).

I've helped a few women figure out their carry problems and it's not an easy proposition.

In general, IWB or OWB behind the hip carry is difficult for women because a) they are short waisted and the butt tends to ride up into their underarms which is uncomfortable and makes the draw difficult, and b) they have to wear concealing garments that overly restrict their fashion options. That said, this could work if the weapon was relatively small like a mini-Glock, Keltec, Kahr, etc. and your friend doesn't mind (or perhaps normally) wears loose sweaters, fleeces, sweatshirts, jackets, etc.

The short waist problem can be mitigated to a certain extent by moving IWB or OWB holster to in front of the hip (so called "appendix carry"). This is not cross draw. Some rearward cant in the holster is also helpful. Again a concealing garment must be worn, which may or may not be your friend's style. This is a very overlooked carry method and does not represent a significant departure from the position of her duty weapon. However, if the women is big busted or very short waisted the butt of the weapon can ride up into the underside of her breast in a sitting position, again uncomfortable.

If she's going to wear concealment for a shoulder holster that same concealment will generally work for both methods above depending on the size of the weapon. Skirts are going to be a problem with little support for a holster. Dresses are right out. If she's the skirt-suit type a shoulder holster is not a bad proposition, don't overlook it. However, as you rightly point out, it causes a training issue, but this can be overcome with, duh, training! Live fire training can be a range safety issue since there are muzzle sweep issues associated with realistic shoulder holster training (the shoulder holster "pirouette" they make you use on many ranges is a pain in the ass and not very realistic). You may need to find some private range time.

Pocket carry is also generally a problem for women as their fashions either have no pockets or the pockets are somewhat vestigial or the pants are fitted close the body.

Small-of-back carry can offer better concealment but it can be hard to get to, uncomfortable, and possibly hurtful if you fall on it.

Pouches are a consideration, but they are not very popular these days.

If she never wears dresses or skirts perhaps an ankle holster, but if her calves are small in diameter as they are for many women it can be difficult to get a secure fit.

All of the above issues have driven most of the women I know who carry to off-the-body solutions, i.e. purse carry. Yes, yes, this is completely substandard to on-the-body carry, but when women want to wear skirts, dresses, tight fitting clothing, etc. it's pretty much all they've got left.

Mrs. aa777888's solution is a Keltec P3AT in a Kydex pocket hoster she has custom affixed to the inside of her fashion purse. Rarely she'll wear it in appendix carry in a Kydex paddle holster but it's usually winter and a lot of fleece is involved A close female friend of the family has chosen a G27 in a G&G holster purse.

These days, with so many excellent medium to very small pistols and revolvers, just remember it's less about the gun and more about how it's carried. If it's not comfortable it's not going to be carried. This is especially true if there's no motivation, i.e. no duty to, or not a warrior/sheepdog type.

aa

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:23:05 PM EDT
I don't think you can go wrong with a Smith 340PD
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:00:47 PM EDT
I carry on and off duty 365 days of the year.

I wear boot cut jeans and have a Glock 26 (with 13 rounds) on my left ankle. I also ride motorcycles and carry my wallet, badge case and extra 17 round mag in my right front pocket.

I use to carry a S&W 640 and noticed, the Glock 26 isn't much heavier or bigger than the 640. The Glock is much easier to shoot without the sting I got from the “J” Frame S&W. It also has better ammo selections than the S&W. I liked my S&W and trusted my life with it. I love my Glock 26 and also trust my life with it. It has never let me down.

You have more initial firepower (13 rounds) along with quicker reloading and again, more firepower (17rounds).

You might want to look at the Glock 26.


_____________________



Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:10:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:05:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:
Have her look at a Sig P225


+1
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 3:56:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Colt_SBR:
Glock 26



+1
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:00:26 PM EDT
For those that carry the Kahr PM40 - Have you had any problems with feed failures? A co-worker bought one and the gun's been back to Kahr 2-3 times for the same problem.

Brian
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:08:10 PM EDT
I also have and carry a G26. You might want her to check out a colt mustang pocketlite...
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:14:43 PM EDT
Don’t know if she routinely carries her badge off-duty, but any LEO who does is crazy to not be armed. Getting caught by a bad guy with just a badge could be her death warrant.

Badges and guns IMHO should always go together.

Anyway, another vote for a five shot revolver.

As far as how she should carry it, the wrong answer is in her purse!

I agree with you regarding the muscle memory issue, but sometimes compromises have to be made.

IMHO a shoulder holster isn’t too bad a choice for off-duty carry for a female. It solves a lot of clothing and access issues. It also solves some problems women have every time they’re wearing pants and need to visit a rest room!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:25:33 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:27:48 PM EDT
Sig P230/232
Sig P225
S&W 3913
S&W 442

My wife carries a Sig P230 or S&W 3913.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:30:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:
Have her look at a Sig P225


Great gun!

I regret selling mine. Only one I miss from my former collection of several Sigs.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:34:13 PM EDT
Used to carry a PPK, much more comfortable with this:

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:38:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 8:40:26 PM EDT by sta1treeman]

Originally Posted By GunnFixr:
A lady friend of mine is a Police Officer. I've been riding her nonstop for the last couple weeks ever since I learned she does not carry a weapon off duty.


Damn! This started off good, the rest of the story didn't go like I thought it was going too.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:38:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brian4wd:
For those that carry the Kahr PM40 - Have you had any problems with feed failures? A co-worker bought one and the gun's been back to Kahr 2-3 times for the same problem.

Brian



Mine did not cycle fully during the break in and I broke a magazine follower in my six round magazine. I called Dottie at Kahr who sent me out a new magazine and a new spring. She said the spring in the PM40 was too weak so Kahr now uses a stronger spring. No mafunctions since.

+1 for Dottie. Great service.



Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:15:37 AM EDT
My wife carries a Kimber ultra carry II I got it for her for mothers day two years ago after she felt that she could manage a .45 And She Can.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:33:35 PM EDT
It's hard to beat a Ladysmith:




or the 638


(Which is normally what I carry)

or the 640



I carry usually carry a 638 in an Uncle Mike's inside-the-waistband holster. They're fairly accurate and very reliable. Stay away from the derringer.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:20:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By aa777888-2:
All of the above issues have driven most of the women I know who carry to off-the-body solutions, i.e. purse carry. Yes, yes, this is completely substandard to on-the-body carry, but when women want to wear skirts, dresses, tight fitting clothing, etc. it's pretty much all they've got left.



This is the truth. Advise her to wear sensible clothing that allows for sensible carry whenever possible. When she absolutely has to wear the girlie clothes, she has to have an option to carry her gun with her.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:55:33 PM EDT
I would suggest the Sig P-239 in 9mm. It is a small, single stack semi-automatic with 8 round magazine or optional 10 round with an extension. We have one petite female officer that improved her range scores and confidence with the move to the 239.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:18:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 10mmillie:
Why not just carry the P226 she carries on duty in a good IWB or OWB holster? When off-duty I carry my P220 in a Desantis Thumb Break holster and a S&W M60 snubby in my weak hand front pocket. Another option for her is the P239.




+1
KISS her.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:20:21 AM EDT
How about a Walther PPK or other small auto .380
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:05:49 AM EDT
She starts grumbling, casting insults, and questioning your masculinity when you says things like ".380"
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