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Posted: 1/25/2006 11:13:09 AM EDT
I was involved in a fairly heated thread awhile back here regarding the merits and professionalism of reserve or part time officers. At the time, as I was denouncing them I was basing my argument on my personal experiences only.

Since that time, I noticed some major fuck ups coming through my own department that are full time, and I read countless articles about loser cops who were/are full time from around the country, including the full time NOPD cops shoplifting in the aftermath of Hurrican Katrina.

Employment in LE came easily enough for me, as my home town where I started hired fairly often, and the agency I now work for hires on a continuous basis. I hadn't considered the areas of the country where some agencies simply don't have the budget to hire often, in areas where economies are bad and officers aren't leaving to provide vacancies for prospective officers, that the only foot-in-the door for many is to start out as part time or reserve.

I still maintain that the only way to really learn this job is to do it for a living, but for many that option isn't available, and for me to minimize their contribution was wrong.

Please allow me to offer a general apology to whoever participated in that thread that I may have insulted.

As I get older, the more I realize what I don't know.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:00:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ryann:
I was involved in a fairly heated thread awhile back here regarding the merits and professionalism of reserve or part time officers. At the time, as I was denouncing them I was basing my argument on my personal experiences only.

Since that time, I noticed some major fuck ups coming through my own department that are full time, and I read countless articles about loser cops who were/are full time from around the country, including the full time NOPD cops shoplifting in the aftermath of Hurrican Katrina.

Employment in LE came easily enough for me, as my home town where I started hired fairly often, and the agency I now work for hires on a continuous basis. I hadn't considered the areas of the country where some agencies simply don't have the budget to hire often, in areas where economies are bad and officers aren't leaving to provide vacancies for prospective officers, that the only foot-in-the door for many is to start out as part time or reserve.

I still maintain that the only way to really learn this job is to do it for a living, but for many that option isn't available, and for me to minimize their contribution was wrong.

Please allow me to offer a general apology to whoever participated in that thread that I may have insulted.

As I get older, the more I realize what I don't know.



That came from the heart, it don't get much more honest than that.

When people realize the highlighted part is true about themselves, they've taken a large step forward.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:49:32 PM EDT
Man, not that my opinion matters all that much, but I have to say that I am impressed that you would change an opinion on something that you seemed so set upon once you looked at the facts.

You are the type of cop I like to work with.


Stay Safe

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 2:28:31 PM EDT
It takes a big man to post that. Apology accepted.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:22:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ryann:
I was involved in a fairly heated thread awhile back here regarding the merits and professionalism of reserve or part time officers. At the time, as I was denouncing them I was basing my argument on my personal experiences only.

Since that time, I noticed some major fuck ups coming through my own department that are full time, and I read countless articles about loser cops who were/are full time from around the country, including the full time NOPD cops shoplifting in the aftermath of Hurrican Katrina.

Employment in LE came easily enough for me, as my home town where I started hired fairly often, and the agency I now work for hires on a continuous basis. I hadn't considered the areas of the country where some agencies simply don't have the budget to hire often, in areas where economies are bad and officers aren't leaving to provide vacancies for prospective officers, that the only foot-in-the door for many is to start out as part time or reserve.

I still maintain that the only way to really learn this job is to do it for a living, but for many that option isn't available, and for me to minimize their contribution was wrong.

Please allow me to offer a general apology to whoever participated in that thread that I may have insulted.

As I get older, the more I realize what I don't know.




No apology is needed, I would do Reserve duty with you anytime. Gene
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:26:13 PM EDT
I'm part time at one agency, full time at another. When I retire from the full time, I intend to keep the part time. Just because you get to where you don't want to play the game 40 hours a week doesn't mean you are no good.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:26:59 PM EDT
Very well said. There are screw-ups in every department, full time and part time. I am a part-time deputy for our dept. and very much enjoy the work and helping our dept. wherever I am needed.

The-Duck
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:27:06 AM EDT
Thanks for the replys. I was never comfortable with my tone in that thread, as while some of my posts were meant in jest they came across as elitest and arrogant.
I've off and on thought about it ever since, especially when I observed some of the major missteps officers have taken on my own department, all full time.

I used to really respect the Illinois State Police, and when that thread started about the troopers owning fully automatic machine guns with forged paper work, I thought that was just indefensible.

After that post about the St Louis cop dropping her purse causing her gun inside to go off, and her actions afterwards, I decideded I was dead wrong in that anti part time thread.

Something else that occured to me is, rookies are the backbone of my department, because they still have the will and the drive to make a difference; I apply this same logic to the reserve or part timer, they probably have more enthusiasm and try harder either because they're using their postiton as a stepping stone, or they believe enough in what they do that they do it for little to no pay.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:17:59 AM EDT

A reserve/auxiliary program can only be as good as the amount of support it gets from the rest of the department.

If nobody tries to school the reserves on how things should be done, how can they be expected to do a good job?

The departments with the best res./aux. programs require their people to pass the same entrance requirements and maintain the same training requirements as their regular officers.

Seasoned auxiliary/reserve officers usually have maturity and decision making skills that a rookie typically does not have. They are more than capable of handling a call or backing someone up but where they tend to be weak is with procedural or administrative areas. Of course, it varies depending on how often they work.

As an example, they may only deal with an involuntary commital order once in a blue moon, so when they have to execute one they may need to go over the steps with someone before hand. No big deal, since once they are told they can handle it by themselves.

As another example, they may only handle a particular type of report call once or twice a year and may need someone to refresh them on what blocks they need to pay particular attention to....or disregard altogether. Again, no big deal, since they can do the rest by themselves.

All that being said, if a res./aux. is truely a fuckup they need to be shown the door, quickly and forcefully.

To anyone out there who is thinking about becoming a full-time, part-time or reserve cop....Keep this in mind.

Law Enforcement work, whether it is being done in a full-time, part time, volunteer, whatever capacity, is a "full-time" mindset....even a lifestyle.
While you shouldn't be "on-duty" 24/7 .....if you are not serious about it you shouldn't be involved in it.
The crooks and scum don't care wether you have 20 days or 20 years under your belt and they don't care whether you are paid to do it or not. It is up to you to make sure that you do not pose a danger to the public or your fellow law enforcement officers through complacency or carelessness.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:56:22 PM EDT
We have 2 reserves that we see on a regular basis where I am. Out of the many that sign up for the work I only see 2 on a regular basis. They get in there and do the work and take the lumps like the rest of us. They are treated as part of the team. No one would know the difference. I trust them to do the right thing.

I think it comes from being familiar with someone and knowing work habits, and how someone will react. If you get out and do this as a reserve I would recommend spending a lot of time on the streets at first. That way people will get to know you.
Just my .02
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:02:53 PM EDT
You're OK in my book

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:08:11 PM EDT
well, damn.

since i'm one of ones who was going back and forth with you i guess i should accept and apologize as well. some of my remarks were a little umm "immature".

anyway, at least you have an open mind about it. being shown respect from the full-time guys is the only "compensation" that we get in my dept. I recieved a letter of commendation from the Lt (at the request of a couple of the other Deputies) for my part in a robbery we worked, and that meant more to me than if i was getting min wage.

maybe one day i can buy you a beer



Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:09:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:24:26 AM EDT
At my department all part-tme officers were full academy graduates.

Reserves were treated like any other officer, except they do not have arrest powers until they finish the academy. All reserves were trained to do everything a regular officer would do. We trained them to fill out all the paperwork, reports, warrants etc. A reserve in our program had an easy time at the academy because of all the training we give them.

The reserve program at another agency in my county was basically a good ole boys club. Their primary function was traffic control for ballgames, rodeos and parades.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:07:09 PM EDT
There are two types of reserves in my department. Profesional well trained guys trying to do the right thing and political hacks who got a gun and a badge by kissing some politicians ass or being related to someone with connections.

I'm always happy to see the good guys helping out even if its just as a second officer in a black & white or transporting the full timers arrests to the jail 40 miles away.

The political hack are like all political hacks.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:24:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ryann:
<snip>
As I get older, the more I realize what I don't know.


The older we *both* get, the less I dread ever having an encounter with you.

I didn't even know the referenced thread existed, but I will say "Good on ya," ryan.

Everyone who's posted thus far (including you) has already touched on the professionalism angle (which most of us non-LEOs appreciate beyond all measure, BTW). Let me also just add, though, that they're equally mortal, as well. How many guys on ODMP were part-timers or reserve? The BGs don't usually discriminate on that basis. Stay safe, all.

(IM inbound)
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:53:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wise_jake:

Originally Posted By ryann:
<snip>
As I get older, the more I realize what I don't know.


The older we *both* get, the less I dread ever having an encounter with you.

I didn't even know the referenced thread existed, but I will say "Good on ya," ryan.

Everyone who's posted thus far (including you) has already touched on the professionalism angle (which most of us non-LEOs appreciate beyond all measure, BTW). Let me also just add, though, that they're equally mortal, as well. How many guys on ODMP were part-timers or reserve? The BGs don't usually discriminate on that basis. Stay safe, all.

(IM inbound)



You bring up a very good point, one I've never considered before. I wonder how many officers killed WERE p/t or reserve.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:55:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
There are two types of reserves in my department. Profesional well trained guys trying to do the right thing and political hacks who got a gun and a badge by kissing some politicians ass or being related to someone with connections.

I'm always happy to see the good guys helping out even if its just as a second officer in a black & white or transporting the full timers arrests to the jail 40 miles away.

The political hack are like all political hacks.



I've known political hacks that were full time as well, obtaining their employment through connections and getting all the good lateral transfers because of said connections.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:57:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
I'm part time at one agency, full time at another. When I retire from the full time, I intend to keep the part time. Just because you get to where you don't want to play the game 40 hours a week doesn't mean you are no good.



Damn dude, doesn't that wear you out?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:45:23 AM EDT
I had a reserve deputy save my ass one night. Its hard for me to not see the need for them. Or, at least, want one in my car when my nearest cover is 15 - 20 minutes away.
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