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Posted: 12/17/2005 9:05:15 PM EDT
Been in the top three twice over the last six months. One guy from top three taken in the first selection. Bring up number 4, interview him, and give him the second spot.

Another guy in a different position has been screwed over twice. He didn't make the top three this last time and he has a spotless personnel folder. The top three ALL had non-paid suspensions! They gave the job to the guy with the LONGEST suspension!!

Not gonna bitch about it, but looking to satisfy my curiosity as to wondering if it is just me, or are more departments promoting those that are suckasses, yes-men, and non wave-makers?

VJ
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 9:08:56 PM EDT
You are not alone in this. Dick suckers get promoted first it's the rule.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 9:17:55 PM EDT
If you get screwed on a promotion, try to get screwed FOR a promotion, it seems to work well for those well earned "under the desk" promotions.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:04:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:40:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Striker:
Happens at my agency all the time. The fuck-ups always get promoted.



Yup!
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:05:23 AM EDT
During my discussion with my division commander about why I wasn't selected, I asked what the purpose of having the top 3 was, and what difference it made as far as being ranked 1 2 or 3.

I guess I was naive in thinking that if you make it past the LE committee as being in the top three, you'd have a good shot at getting promoted. Apparently, the statute is worded so that the big boss can pick any of those 3 for one spot, and fill the third spot with the next person on the list. In effect, keep filling the third spot with someone new in hopes of really getting who they want, or someone who they don't dislike as much, as the case may be.

Pathetic. I'd laughed when other guys would say, "aw, they already know who they want." Now, I am a believer.

VJ
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:09:58 AM EDT
Sorry to hear that you did not get promoted... it does sound screwed up that you are in the "Top Three" but then they decide to bypass you both (the two left) to "dip lower into the pool" to fill a position.

Any idea what the forth guy had that made a difference? ie: college, special skills education, previous supervisor experience from another agency , etc??

Good luck...........
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:06:21 AM EDT
It is called Septic Tank management Brothers and Sisters:

The Big Pieces of S#!+ float to the top first.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:01:59 PM EDT
I have a depuy buddy going throught the same shit. He has trained for years to make himself marketable as a SGT but every time the boards come around, they promote the biggest hilbilly-assed redneck yes man they can find.
That being said I know a cpuple of guys at the S.O. that are shit hot but the majority are cormbread eating sister dating idiots.
Hell, it pisses me off and I don't even work there. Hate to see one of my best friends get screwed.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:07:24 PM EDT
Sometimes it's a case of "fuck up - move up".

There are all sorts of reasons guys get promoted, not hardly all based on merit.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 1:58:50 PM EDT
At least my agency isn't the only one promoting based on screw-ups.

What really pisses me off is when a "friend" has gone behind your back and begged for something you've been working for. I'm one of the range officers and the only weapon's instructor that actually instructs. I also have an MOI and a severe interest in tactical training with experience to go with it. Yet, a "buddy" has gone up and whined twice to move on spots that I had mentioned wanting, a SWAT basic school and an FTO school.

Oh well, the squeeky wheel with a smudgy nose I guess.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 2:37:21 PM EDT
Around here getting a promotion is all about who you know, which is stupid
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 2:45:07 PM EDT
It's called the "Good Ole Boy System". At my department any promotions or raises tends to be based off of seniority. The last Sgt. promotion, my coworker tested and at the end was told by the Chief, "Officer [so and so] [now one of the Sgt.'s] has been here longer so I'm going to be promoting him". It was the biggest kick in the balls!

All I gotta say is, hang in there, the time will come!

Link Posted: 12/18/2005 4:59:13 PM EDT
They rise to their level of incompetance.



I just got screwed myself and have to test again
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:38:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Agent8905:
Around here getting a promotion is all about who you know, which is stupid



This seems to be situation around here. But they (mgmt) get what they pay for with these selections. We have a few supervisors that are ineffective. They don't know enough to function as a sup and can't or won't make any decisions. A lot of the times the guys will wait until the sup is off to ask another about leave or days off. When I have questions, I never ask these guys but go over their head. The watch commander knows why, but can't do anything about it. The other supervisors don't trust them with anything even though they try not to make it too obvious. They don't have anyone's respect as leaders and are pretty pathetic.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:52:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brushdog: They don't have anyone's respect as leaders and are pretty pathetic.


Leader........ that is an interesting word........ out of 12 sergeants and 5 admin pukes, I can think of ONE that qualifies in my mind as a true leader. The rest aren't worthy of the title supervisor, much less that of leader.

Nice to see I'm not alone,

VJ
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:25:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 10:26:15 PM EDT by vojta]
Dude,

Don't let it get you down. I've beat all of the last three supervisors promoted in various tests over the last five years. I kick ass and take names on tests, just like on the street. I am not fit to be a leader, unless there is some scary shit going donw and then everyone is happy to see me and listens to my "suggestions". Promotions suck.

Ever met a Chief who was ever a real street cop?

Being a street cop is almost a bar to promotion. Being an old-fashioned dirty-bastard of a cop is downright hazardous to your career. It's definitely resulted in my rocketing to the bottom of the pile! But then again, I have to look at myself in the mirror in the morning. Stripes or bars aren't worth your soul.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:25:46 AM EDT
Our department promotes based directly on your ranking on the promotional tests. The oral board scores are given by officers from OTHER departments and we give them our testing number, not our names. Mgmt tried to get that "top 3" bullshit in our last contract, but our union voted it down. Next time you guys go back for contract negotiation, make that a priority. That system you have just sucks. I'd be pissed!!
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:36:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By trgrpullr:
Our department promotes based directly on your ranking on the promotional tests. The oral board scores are given by officers from OTHER departments and we give them our testing number, not our names. Mgmt tried to get that "top 3" bullshit in our last contract, but our union voted it down. Next time you guys go back for contract negotiation, make that a priority. That system you have just sucks. I'd be pissed!!



What a novel idea, actually promoting those that are the top candidates. I wish it were a contract issue, however it is written in ordinance here.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:07:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:50:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Striker:
Happens at my agency all the time. The fuck-ups always get promoted.


Dude! You work for my department too??
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:51:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 6:51:48 PM EDT by V65-Sabre]
Double tap
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:08:59 AM EDT
It happens everywhere's. My department has some of the same stuff. That's why there is sually such division between admin and the line guys. The real leaders ae guys that don't really want the job, and the ones that get promoted are the ones that only have their interests in mind instead of the common good for everyone else.
Vaugn, you really don't want stripes, do you? Everyone I know that has stripes gets an ego, a power trip, and it changes them, usually in some negative ways...You sure that's for you?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:02:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bblake00:
You are not alone in this. Dick suckers get promoted first it's the rule.



Very true words. It's not what you know but who you blow.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:11:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 8:15:19 AM EDT by V_Johnson]

Originally Posted By chwi548:
It happens everywhere's. My department has some of the same stuff. That's why there is sually such division between admin and the line guys. The real leaders ae guys that don't really want the job, and the ones that get promoted are the ones that only have their interests in mind instead of the common good for everyone else.
VJ you really don't want stripes, do you? Everyone I know that has stripes gets an ego, a power trip, and it changes them, usually in some negative ways...You sure that's for you?



Interesting thing is, it isn't something that would've changed me. I have always been a wave-maker for the troops benefit. If something isn't right, I say it. If admin asks me a question with that tinge of "I dare you say anything but what I want to hear", I look them in the eye and I say what is right. There is so much avoidance at the upper levels.....nobody wants to deal with anything. Therefore morale couldn't be lower. The troops don't have anyone to go to bat for them and we know it. There is no discipline either. Nobody cares.

What a great way to run a department.

ETA: This was the first step in my process to run for Big Cheese, so that I could attempt to fix the crap that permeates the department now.

VJ
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:34:32 AM EDT
Another member of the BS=Brass club checkin' in... Just so y'all know, this type of activity isn't limited to the Cop shop.


Originally Posted By trgrpullr:
Our department promotes based directly on your ranking on the promotional tests.



On out last Lt.'s exam, we had three candidates (self included) pass the written (score of 70% or greater).

When they realized that the Chief's "chosen one" hadn;t passed, they divided the % result in half, changed the resulting number to "points", and awarded them down the line. Then they allowed the all the candidates to apply their .mil points (in IL you're allowed to apply .mil points once, but since we only have the one test...) result? Tango goes from #3 to #5. Now I'm sitting at the top of a "dead" list.

Of course, when our current Chief was testing for Lt., he got a written score of 64%. He went to the Board, and argued that, since the law concerning promotions states that "...the written examination score shall comprise 60% of your combined score..." that that meant that the passing score was 60%. He was a "favorite" from upstairs, and they accepted his argument, and placed him on the list.

At 4pm on the last day of the old Mayor's term, he got promoted above two other candidates. I guess it helped that he'd pounded yard signs for the Mayor's intended replacement.


The oral board scores are given by officers from OTHER departments and we give them our testing number, not our names.


I'd like to see a "neutral" review board here, but I doubt it'll happen in my career.


Mgmt tried to get that "top 3" bullshit in our last contract, but our union voted it down. Next time you guys go back for contract negotiation, make that a priority. That system you have just sucks. I'd be pissed!!


IL passed the "fairness in promotions act" a year ago, that enabled us to grieve unfair promotion practices. It also changed the "pass over" policy from "management discretion" without documentation to requiring witten reasons for pass-overs. I know that if I'd challenged the change, I'd get my #3 spot back, but then (a) I'd get passed over for some sort od BS reason that would get tied up until the expiration of the list then/or (b) next time I tested, I'd place 14 out of 12.

At least two of the three guys that got made are OK. The senior guy has a track record of severe and chronic check-valve-itis (one way MF), and has a history of pulling stuff on the training and fire ground that has had the potential to kill or severly injure the crew (charged a training hose on a roof to 200 psi "so they'll know what it's like", and put a fog stream into an involved room from the outside just as the interior crew was entering. "I was only following orders").

People tend to forget that the "bugle" is supposed to work both ways, and not just be a "sh*t funnel" towards the troops.

You just gotta do what you know is right, and keep working towards:

Providing the best service for your citizens
Giving half a shit about your shop
Making the Department a better place for the guy or gal who'll repace you when you retire.


If you don't you're no better than any of them.

Keep the faith, Brother.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:51:47 AM EDT
I think it's everywhere, I worked for a 160 man department in the North, and for a 3,000 officer department in the South, and that's just the way it is I've decided.
Police work, after all, is government work, and the fuck ups don't cost the bottom line so competence isn't always the final criteria.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:58:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By V_Johnson:
Ever been screwed on a promotion?

I'm a white protestant heterosexual male, what do you think?
cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?id=46334§ionId=46
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:49:52 AM EDT
Had a labor relations professor (two tours in Pentagon, ret. Maj. Gen.) tell me once that the best thing that can happen regarding these types of people is that they:

Get promoted high enough to where their ineptitude can no longer be hidden.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:55:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By V_Johnson:

Originally Posted By chwi548:
It happens everywhere's. My department has some of the same stuff. That's why there is sually such division between admin and the line guys. The real leaders ae guys that don't really want the job, and the ones that get promoted are the ones that only have their interests in mind instead of the common good for everyone else.
VJ you really don't want stripes, do you? Everyone I know that has stripes gets an ego, a power trip, and it changes them, usually in some negative ways...You sure that's for you?


Interesting thing is, it isn't something that would've changed me. I have always been a wave-maker for the troops benefit. If something isn't right, I say it. If admin asks me a question with that tinge of "I dare you say anything but what I want to hear", I look them in the eye and I say what is right. There is so much avoidance at the upper levels.....nobody wants to deal with anything. Therefore morale couldn't be lower. The troops don't have anyone to go to bat for them and we know it. There is no discipline either. Nobody cares.

What a great way to run a department.

ETA: This was the first step in my process to run for Big Cheese, so that I could attempt to fix the crap that permeates the department now.

VJ


I think you've identified your "problem"...... only problem is, I don't see it as a problem. YMMV.

FWIW, I applaud you for the position/stance you've taken, and I also wish to thank you for your service (and the rest of you as well, while I'm at it ).
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:39:32 AM EDT
1. Dont let the ******** get you down.

2. Crap does rise to the top.

3. Eventually they implode Usually embarassing the dept.

4. If they dont implode, they sharpen up their knives and
go to work on each other.

80% of Sgts are good guys. The other 20% are already looking for promotion.
50% of Lts are good guys. The other 50% are already looking for promotion.
Above that, it is usually a case of who you know, who you blow or who you owe.

The best supervisors I have ever had were still willing to get their hands dirty
do some street work. The rest were at the office hiding out.

Best wishes

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:01:00 AM EDT
Haven't really participated in the promotional process much yet, but I have gotten hosed out of Officer of the Month...twice. Does that count?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:50:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bonk2029:
Haven't really participated in the promotional process much yet, but I have gotten hosed out of Officer of the Month...twice. Does that count?


Well then you've *already* been screwed out of promotions...... you just don't know it yet!

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:31:44 AM EDT
About 5 times already. Every time there is a promotion I'm always first in-line. Then for some odd reason something happens to me before the promtion is put on the board so people could put in for it. I either get a write up in my file or I've been out due to family emeg. Oh-well just my luck.

From,
Joe....
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:44:45 AM EDT
people are sometimes promoted to get rid of them...
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