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Posted: 12/24/2020 1:54:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That can be interpreted a few different ways. It tells a lot, mostly that its a really small agency. I can't imagine an OIT that has ever even spoken to, or been physically seen by, any of the Chiefs much less is "liked" by one. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 6:21:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Diversity>Ability = Fail
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Posted: 12/26/2020 10:43:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It tells a lot, mostly that its a really small agency. I can't imagine an OIT that has ever even spoken to, or been physically seen by, any of the Chiefs much less is "liked" by one.  When I worked in our Dallas office, our SAC would introduce himself to me every time he saw me in the hall (I was plainclothes) and ask me which agency I worked for. And, we only had 240 sworn in that office.
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Posted: 12/26/2020 10:49:51 AM EDT
[#4]
We had a very similar recruit to yours. Almost the exact scenarios and responses.
We refused to fire her until she stole some narcotics. Good luck. |
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Posted: 12/26/2020 12:18:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your agency allowed someone to keep their gun and badge while on anxiety meds??? Wow... in the Fed world, that's pretty much an instant "pull gun and creds", and sit behind a desk until a psychiatrist signs off you don't need meds and you pass a couple piss tests to follow up... As to the OP, You need to document everything she does and says every shift, to include refusing to follow orders. Then make your written recommendation as clear as possible "Terminate Employment Immediately", don't sugar coat it. Keep copies of everything. If you have department email, use that to send a copy up the chain, and BCC a copy to your own private email to retain a timestamped copy. Department email has a way of deleting much needed item at the worst possible time... I had to testify at a civil trial about another agents training after they "neglected to follow procedures" (we'll just leave it at that)... The fact it was documented by myself and several other members of the training staff, the person being sued had been properly trained, and also remediated later on procedures, was what kept several of us from being lumped in with him in the lawsuit. He lost, was terminated after 8 years on the job, and the agency had to pay a low 6 figure sum. If someone in LE screws the pooch royally, a good lawyer will name everyone from the chief of police, all the way down to the person who did their background check before they got hired, and EVERYONE in between. Its then up to record keeping and documentation to get as many (if not all) of those people kicked off the roster before trial. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ... She ended up getting a bunch of personnel complaints on her driving due to her anxiety stress meds... Your agency allowed someone to keep their gun and badge while on anxiety meds??? Wow... in the Fed world, that's pretty much an instant "pull gun and creds", and sit behind a desk until a psychiatrist signs off you don't need meds and you pass a couple piss tests to follow up... As to the OP, You need to document everything she does and says every shift, to include refusing to follow orders. Then make your written recommendation as clear as possible "Terminate Employment Immediately", don't sugar coat it. Keep copies of everything. If you have department email, use that to send a copy up the chain, and BCC a copy to your own private email to retain a timestamped copy. Department email has a way of deleting much needed item at the worst possible time... I had to testify at a civil trial about another agents training after they "neglected to follow procedures" (we'll just leave it at that)... The fact it was documented by myself and several other members of the training staff, the person being sued had been properly trained, and also remediated later on procedures, was what kept several of us from being lumped in with him in the lawsuit. He lost, was terminated after 8 years on the job, and the agency had to pay a low 6 figure sum. If someone in LE screws the pooch royally, a good lawyer will name everyone from the chief of police, all the way down to the person who did their background check before they got hired, and EVERYONE in between. Its then up to record keeping and documentation to get as many (if not all) of those people kicked off the roster before trial. only if you are female or protected class of course. we had another doozey that did get taken off the road and nearly terminated and frankly should have been. She had some med issues and some bizaree PUBLIC behavior and wrecked an office on a weekend. One of management saved her. Of course there was a repeat of bizarre behavior and that was quietly handled. Still here though. |
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Posted: 12/26/2020 12:24:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmm....no. I have many stories about her. All of them are crazy. Both she and her boyfriend were legit crazy. Harmless but crazy. She used to talk about the time she and her brother had sex...I don’t think she thought it was abnormal......her boyfriend wore headphones to drown out the voices.....  Then there was the time I had to talk to the guy who the neighbors had seen having sex with his dog. Didn’t cover that in the academy either........ Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: so..... get married? lol  Ummmm....no. I have many stories about her. All of them are crazy. Both she and her boyfriend were legit crazy. Harmless but crazy. She used to talk about the time she and her brother had sex...I don’t think she thought it was abnormal......her boyfriend wore headphones to drown out the voices..... Then there was the time I had to talk to the guy who the neighbors had seen having sex with his dog. Didn’t cover that in the academy either........ lol, ours covered that. Its in the law book. |
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Posted: 12/26/2020 6:34:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol, ours covered that. Its in the law book. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: so..... get married? lol Ummmm....no. I have many stories about her. All of them are crazy. Both she and her boyfriend were legit crazy. Harmless but crazy. She used to talk about the time she and her brother had sex...I don’t think she thought it was abnormal......her boyfriend wore headphones to drown out the voices..... Then there was the time I had to talk to the guy who the neighbors had seen having sex with his dog. Didn’t cover that in the academy either........ lol, ours covered that. Its in the law book. It’s one thing to talk about the laws....it’s another thing to actually deal with the situation. So when you go talk to the guy who was fucking his dog.....you gotta approach it somehow. The academy never covered how to start that conversation....and realistically the academy can’t.....I don’t mean that in a negative way....just the way it is. “So do you have any idea why I’m here talking to you? No? Ok well your neighbor saw you fucking your dog so.....did you fuck your dog?” 
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Posted: 12/28/2020 2:07:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's one thing to talk about the laws....it's another thing to actually deal with the situation. So when you go talk to the guy who was fucking his dog.....you gotta approach it somehow. The academy never covered how to start that conversation....and realistically the academy can't.....I don't mean that in a negative way....just the way it is. "So do you have any idea why I'm here talking to you? No? Ok well your neighbor saw you fucking your dog so.....did you fuck your dog?" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: so..... get married? lol Ummmm....no. I have many stories about her. All of them are crazy. Both she and her boyfriend were legit crazy. Harmless but crazy. She used to talk about the time she and her brother had sex...I don't think she thought it was abnormal......her boyfriend wore headphones to drown out the voices..... Then there was the time I had to talk to the guy who the neighbors had seen having sex with his dog. Didn't cover that in the academy either........ lol, ours covered that. Its in the law book. It's one thing to talk about the laws....it's another thing to actually deal with the situation. So when you go talk to the guy who was fucking his dog.....you gotta approach it somehow. The academy never covered how to start that conversation....and realistically the academy can't.....I don't mean that in a negative way....just the way it is. "So do you have any idea why I'm here talking to you? No? Ok well your neighbor saw you fucking your dog so.....did you fuck your dog?"
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Posted: 12/29/2020 3:54:10 AM EDT
[#9]
Fair disclosure: Not a cop here, but have a somewhat similar story
When I was in EMT school, we all had a minimum of 4 clinic shifts towards the end of the program. 1 shift working in the ER, 1 on an ambulance, 1 on a fire crew, and 1 more of your choice. We were under STRICT orders to do EXACTLY what we were told to do by our crews / trainers. So if you were told to treat that wound, take that blood pressure, perform CPR on the victim, etc, you goddamn well better jump in and do it to the best of your ability. I had a fellow female student, whose mom was a long time practicing paramedic. During her ER shift, they bring in an older woman in cardiac arrest. ER Doc tells her to get in there, relieve the paramedic doing compressions, and start pumping. Student refuses and breaks into tears. Her later explanation was "that woman reminded me of my dead grand ma". Student was immediately sent home, and on the next school day, she had to meet with the Dean of the program, and he washes her out right then and there. I'm shocked the female officer hasn't been given the boot yet. She's a threat to you, other officers, and the public. |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 8:13:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Get her signed off immediately, there is an agency somewhere looking for a check the box chief.
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Posted: 1/10/2021 8:22:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Ask her what kind of cop she thinks you are. I bet the answer is interesting.
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Posted: 1/10/2021 8:31:36 PM EDT
[#12]
If she continues on she's going to get herself or someone else killed.
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Posted: 1/11/2021 7:14:30 PM EDT
[#13]
 WOW! id have dumped her at the station with a very long and detailed daily eval and phase eval of not responding to training listing refusals to follow directions as well any remediation measures you've taken to rectify the failures so that you can lay the responsibility on her for failing to perform despite attempts to correct the deficiency, document, document, document. On trainees like that I would end up writing 6 to page evaluations a day. it unfortunately usually ends up with the trainee blaming all their failures on you so remain professional at all times, focus on training, remediation and documentation. Explain to her her job is to document crimes and your job is to train and document her, its not personal, you document what she did right, what she did wrong, what corrective measures you've taken and ultimately a failure to respond to training. Good luck, those trainees really make you earn that extra $1.25
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Posted: 1/12/2021 10:50:17 PM EDT
[#14]
If you allow her to continue then her or someone may get hurt and it will be on you
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Posted: 1/13/2021 2:00:07 AM EDT
[#15]
her best legal defense will be this thread
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Posted: 2/5/2021 9:15:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Let's be real she'll be a Lt. one day.
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:43:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Good thread.
What would a BOOT need to be doing for FTO's to think, god damn this person is squared away? What could they do to impress you? |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:51:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good thread. What would a BOOT need to be doing for FTO's to think, god damn this person is squared away? What could they do to impress you? Eyes and ears open and mouth shut. Open mouth to ask questions. |
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Posted: 2/9/2021 1:34:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eyes and ears open and mouth shut. Open mouth to ask questions. Would it be appropriate to pre game/run scenarios? Ie if I see this, I would expect to do this, based on xyz, and ask the fto's thoughts on my course of action? |
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Posted: 2/9/2021 2:15:47 AM EDT
[#20]
I didn’t read much of the responses. But if there’s a way to fire her or get her to quit without getting yourself fired, you should do that. The chief is a fucking idiot. Someone’s going to get hurt.
Also, she’s going to be your boss in a Few years. That sucks. |
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Posted: 2/9/2021 9:34:40 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would it be appropriate to pre game/run scenarios? Ie if I see this, I would expect to do this, based on xyz, and ask the fto's thoughts on my course of action? Sure. It’s when the trainee decides to educate the FTO from their vast wealth of experience and knowledge that talking on the part of the trainee becomes a problem. |
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Posted: 2/9/2021 1:47:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure. It’s when the trainee decides to educate the FTO from their vast wealth of experience and knowledge that talking on the part of the trainee becomes a problem. Lol. Now that's funny. |
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