Say you already know a local church has a security team and they told you that during an active shooter situation the good guys would be wearing these...



Are you really going to see them and not shoot the good guy ?  Is this thing worth the extra bulk and weight and goofiness?

We have LEO on staff and have a good relationship with local LEO.
Thanks for your time and your service.

What would stop a bad guy from wearing one and causing more havoc?

well he could also wear a LEO uniform

We ordered the sling version for our plain clothes guys to have on their rifles. If nothing else it's an extra attention grabber during target ID and could prevent a blue on blue shooting

Aren't these just a Please Shoot Me! banner from the bad guy's point of view?

I can see it as maybe being worth while to id them to congregation members, with a down side of they are readily available so fakes can become an issue.

As far as responding officers, I have said it before reference the stupid fucking ccw banners and badges and in training for off duty cops.  An officer responding to a gunshooting call has a lot going on.  He may or may not having clothing descriptions.  He may have multiple conflicting descriptions.  He knows by experience the description is often ummm inaccurate.  So anyone with a gun is going to be assumed to be and treated as such until proven not to be one.  So complying with the officers orders, instead standing there with your gun trying to explain I'm a good guy, is the way to go.  

I train my officers to comply with arriving officers orders.  Some get butt hurt over it until you turn it around and you roll up at a shooting and some guy you don't know is standing their with a gun running his mouth with a gun in his hand.  That usually gets them to think about it.  Because bottom line you know what happened, you know you are a good guy.  The responding officer doesn't unless you are in a small town  And even then shit happens.

JMHO YMMV

Maybe.

Ideally someone would be giving the Police a good description before they even arrive. Better if the suspect is dropped right away and pd is there for rescue and clean up. Armed people who don't know each other in a high stress situation like that is a recipe for a bad time. Information and stopping the threat immediately is the best way to prevent that.

We have participated in exercises with security teams made up of some of the host company's employees; some with prior MIL/LE service. Bottom line, it just doesn't work out well when non-LE guys are running around with guns. If you happen to be right there when shit goes down and you are legally armed, absolutely take care of business but for the most part don't have your gun out and try to help get other people out as you are getting away yourself.

I think it's great to have a trained security team. You guys are the first line of defense. My opinion is to let the cops do their thing once they show up though.

On the topic of the banner you posted: I don't think I would even worry about it. You waste time putting it on and I personally wouldn't disregard a person wearing it when responding to a call. Especially if I knew they were armed.

Anyway great topic and question.

Here's the bottom line:

If you engage, expect to be shot by responding officers.

This is *NOT* a ding on patrollers. Or any other group that runs to the call. They are simply going to be on 11, like you. If you see them before they see you, maybe you actively THROW your gun straight down and avoid catching a round. Or maybe you cover an area scanning for the next gunshot, and they roll up behind you and you hear them and turn to see an....  BLAM

It is what it is.

It doesn't matter what you wear. I've spent time as an armed guard at a college with college police and local police. Even in a uniform, known to the regulars, during training and just walking the halls... shit happens.

As for me, I've made my peace with it. I'm not standing there if I can help it, Lord willing. But there's no 'color of the day' or secret word / handshake / challenge / counter that works. What if the shooter IS a disgruntled guard or officer? A recent stabbing like last year, the guy had a guard uniform shirt on, and was shot by an off duty part-time police officer.

They are gonna roll in, hard. They are going to engage any threat they see, hard. Hopefully there is a challenge given, but if they aren't in a position of superior firepower, cover, or concealment, and especially if you present like you have extra bulk around the waist, you might just get popped.