User Panel
[#1]
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Respectfully, If you are having to monitor and spike yourself, or worse, wear a pump... with the operational tempo and range of physicality that comes with being an assaulter, do you realistically see yourself being an asset or a liability in that narrow window of tasks? View Quote I have a Ranger buddy who is a SL who now has 9 deployments under his belt, 5 since diagnosed as a Type 1 Diabetic. There's always a risk, but risk can be mitigated. His MED board found him fit for duty 3 years before mine found me unfit. It's a subjective process. |
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[#2]
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[#3]
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Now even after getting a letter Federal Gov saying my start date is one day now they are trying to say I'm not good enough for this job because of my credit! Mind you a week before my flight leaves to Hawaii! View Quote i dunno what agency youre going with but if you had defaulted debts then my agency required people who had them to get an agreement in place and put on a payment plan to go forward.. |
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[#4]
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Now even after getting a letter Federal Gov saying my start date is one day now they are trying to say I'm not good enough for this job because of my credit! Mind you a week before my flight leaves to Hawaii! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I hear you man. Now even after getting a letter Federal Gov saying my start date is one day now they are trying to say I'm not good enough for this job because of my credit! Mind you a week before my flight leaves to Hawaii! My friend was DQd from an agency 4 days before his start date. |
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[#5]
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Doesn't the FBI have a "tactical" hiring path these days? View Quote Just came across this for some reason. Just FYI, a client of mine was Special Forces with more than a decade of combat experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. Also was a Ranger and went to sniper school. Also did a lot of contracting in the same AO. He really wanted to go to FBI HRT. He had all the certifications, all the classes, all the security clearances, all the experience. They took his application, but they pretty much put him on a waitlist. He ended up going into contracting, which was paying less and less, and last I heard still hadn't received any news from them. |
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[#6]
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Gotcha. Any idea what agencies' specialty units will write me off as soon as they see I'm a diabetic? Im trying to avoid getting hired to, let's say, the FBI just to find out that my diabetes disqualifies me from HRT and other specialties even though I'm allowed to be a special agent. My disease preventing me from going to certain units and task forces within Agencies is really what I'm trying to figure out. I don't know what gigs are out there for me. View Quote To apply for HRT selection you must serve as a field agent for a minimum of 3 years. Most come on board with 5 to 7 years in. You will be competing with some serious talent, lots of solid former military tier 1 guys. Medically diabetes will DQ you. They do have the TRP but I've yet to meet anyone who made selection thru that pipeline. |
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[#7]
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Being a nuke courier definitely isn't for me. I'll check out the requirements on 1811 series jobs. The question is still there of whether or not specialized units will keep me from trying out. View Quote Not on a special team, but just from reading the announcements at work our SRT team for CBP (customs, not border patrol) doesn't make mention of diabetes or anything specifically. If you can pass the training you're good. As far as I know this is extremely similar training to BORTAC and it's done at the same facility with the same instructors. That said, if you're an insulin depended diabetic I don't believe they'll keep you from trying, but I also don't think they're going to make it easy to take your insulin either if that makes sense... They've had asthmatics and such test for it and hey, can't take your inhaler during the 45 minute swim? Fail. That said, you can get hired for CBP (border patrol or officer) without doing the polygraph if you've had an active .mil clearance iirc. |
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[#8]
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Not on a special team, but just from reading the announcements at work our SRT team for CBP (customs, not border patrol) doesn't make mention of diabetes or anything specifically. If you can pass the training you're good. As far as I know this is extremely similar training to BORTAC and it's done at the same facility with the same instructors. That said, if you're an insulin depended diabetic I don't believe they'll keep you from trying, but I also don't think they're going to make it easy to take your insulin either if that makes sense... They've had asthmatics and such test for it and hey, can't take your inhaler during the 45 minute swim? Fail. That said, you can get hired for CBP (border patrol or officer) without doing the polygraph if you've had an active .mil clearance iirc. View Quote That doesn't sound right. But you would know better than me. /shrug. |
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[#9]
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Not on a special team, but just from reading the announcements at work our SRT team for CBP (customs, not border patrol) doesn't make mention of diabetes or anything specifically. If you can pass the training you're good. As far as I know this is extremely similar training to BORTAC and it's done at the same facility with the same instructors. That said, if you're an insulin depended diabetic I don't believe they'll keep you from trying, but I also don't think they're going to make it easy to take your insulin either if that makes sense... They've had asthmatics and such test for it and hey, can't take your inhaler during the 45 minute swim? Fail. That said, you can get hired for CBP (border patrol or officer) without doing the polygraph if you've had an active .mil clearance iirc. View Quote |
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[#10]
Unless that's a very recent change, that's not true. I went through the process, had a clearance with the military, and have one with my current employer and I still had to take the poly for BPA.
Unless maybe it's for a TS clearance as I only had/have a secret. |
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[#11]
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Unless that's a very recent change, that's not true. I went through the process, had a clearance with the military, and have one with my current employer and I still had to take the poly for BPA. Unless maybe it's for a TS clearance as I only had/have a secret. View Quote |
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[#12]
BP is a good gig, but don't feel the need to rush into BORTAC. They are a great bunch of guys but they seem to spend almost all of their time training. There is plenty of work and fun stuff to get into if you look for it, for a regular line agent. There's also lots of smaller team unit details you can get on.
If you are sold on BORTAC, I will say that they like to pluck those guys fairly early on for selection, unlike some agencies where you will need to spend years waiting for a chance. Get past probation, apply, qualify and then get your shot and as many chances as you want. BP also does not require a college degree. |
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[#13]
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Unless that's a very recent change, that's not true. I went through the process, had a clearance with the military, and have one with my current employer and I still had to take the poly for BPA. Unless maybe it's for a TS clearance as I only had/have a secret. View Quote Entry level CBPOs do not have a clearance of any sort, that's what makes the poly so ridiculous. You might get a Secret or higher down the road, but I'd be willing to bet 95% of all CBPOs are on a public trust... |
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[#14]
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Supposedly the Commissioner can waive the poly for military with an active poly and active TS/SCI. This came up a few weeks ago. Entry level CBPOs do not have a clearance of any sort, that's what makes the poly so ridiculous. You might get a Secret or higher down the road, but I'd be willing to bet 95% of all CBPOs are on a public trust... View Quote Yup, looks like they haven't put it in the latest announcement yet. I've heard from multiple sources that it should be coming though. In the newest announcement it does say they MIGHT accept a poly from another federal agency at least. The union told me that they're supposed to be sitting in on some of the polygraphs since they've gotten so ridiculous. I know at least in my field office they ended up calling a bunch of people back in because it was discovered that they investigators were all butthurt they didn't get their journeyman increase and were taking bets on who could fail more people. *allegedly* edit: Anyways OP, customs and also border patrol will be doing a lot of veteran targeted hiring and I believe the announcments right now would allow some to start off at a GS-09, which would mean after 2 years you'd be a GS-12 making some pretty good money. Border patrol is probably more of what you're looking for, but medically I think you'd be better off with customs (although it will be a lot less fun more than likely) |
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[#15]
In my agency we up until recently had a number of essentially paramilitary teams that did stuff overseas but they are no more. OTOH individual divisions now are authorized SRT style teams which is the first I've seen in 18 years. Change is a constant and what teams are around today may not be around in two years or five years or at the stroke of a pen tomorrow. (More established teams like HRT will likely be around a very long time however.) But all that will depend on the individual agency. I guess what I'm trying to say is worry more initially about getting hired. Find an agency whose core mission you gravitate to in general, then once you're in, see what type of special ops type stuff they have available, because a lot of the high speed low drag stuff is literally a case of here today, gone tomorrow. My other advice is to get ready for a long hiring process. It took me 3 years to get hired, then six more years on the street before I got transferred into the position I'm in now that I'll retire out of in a few years. Good luck. PM me if you have any specific questions.
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[#16]
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Your enthusiasm is appreciated, but you really need to slow down and pump the brakes for a few reasons. As a 1811 for over ten years, and a former team guy who got promoted to management and was transferred off a team, I am now involved in the hiring process/training of new agents, you are getting some good general info here. But let me get specific that those who have never been hiring officials may not know exists in 2017 in federal law enforcement. If anyone came into any 1811 interview and even mentioned special units outside the question of where do you see yourself in ten years, (not 5), you will get bounced. Even if applying through the specialty team direct hire process. You need to become an agent first, a seasoned and experienced agent at that. Some teams are a primary primary duty (I know of three), but very few are straight action- the rest do "other" stuff. As such, and at two of three full time teams I know, they want you to know how to operate as a seasoned criminal investigator. Kicking in the door and doing a sweep for perps is meaningless if you don't understand the case behind such, as you will blow through destroying potential evidence or doings something else that jeopardizes a criminal case. Not something you learn through an academy class or reading a book. It takes years to get the basics down. Federal LE work operates much different that state and local who live on PC and doing first, whereas we do a lot of asking first. Nobody makes a team unless they make agent, and a good agent at that. Agencies are filled with guys who have better skills (physical, defense, firearms) than many on the team- but they are crappy agents and can't handle that part of the job- so they will never see a team position. Anyone coming in the door who expresses no interest in learning the basic job functions of the agency, and becoming an expert at them, before moving up or into specialty units, doesn't make it far in our hiring process, or other agencies, and we consult almost ourselves often. The 1811 series, no matter what agency, has ONE medical standard. That standard allows folks with Type I diabetes, after an evaluation. During the hiring process, once it is disclosed, you will be sent for additional testing, sometimes at your expense. Everyone case is different, and you opinion here is not valid. Its what the testing shows that matters - scientific numbers and what they compare to the standards set by OPM and ultimately each candidates files stamped by Federal Occupational Health. A waiver is almost impossible for 1811 for Type I diabetes if you results are outside the window; however you can get an agency level waiver for 1801 and 1810 at the hiring officials/agency head discretion. If you make agent, and then are a good agent, there are no additional medical standards for team members. They stay the same as the job category- 1811. However there are increased PT standards, and they no waives or flexibility. Good luck with your decision! View Quote 1. Kick rocks 2. He would be told that he is not cut out for LE 3. Pursue another career 4. There are literally thousands of applicants who more qualified by experience and education who will be applying for the same position - many already in federal LE Don't believe me OP? Try officer dot com, 911jobforums, and policeone and see how receptive they are to the type of responses you've proffered here. Having said that, here are a few series to look out for on usajobs: 1801 General Investigation/ Enforcement/ Compliance 1802 Compliance Inspection and Support 1805 Investigative Analysis 1810 General Investigation 1811 Criminal Investigator (Special Agents) 1895 Customs and Border Protection 1896 Border Patrol 0025 NPS LE Ranger 1812 FWS LE (not sure if still used) 0082 US Marshal 0083 Police Officer 0080 Security Administration (may be LE position) Good luck! |
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[#17]
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[#18]
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[#19]
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You're a nice guy. With the responses the OP has provided here he would be told on any LE discussion forum to: 1. Kick rocks 2. He would be told that he is not cut out for LE 3. Pursue another career 4. There are literally thousands of applicants who more qualified by experience and education who will be applying for the same position - many already in federal LE Don't believe me OP? Try officer dot com, 911jobforums, and policeone and see how receptive they are to the type of responses you've proffered here. Having said that, here are a few series to look out for on usajobs: 1801 General Investigation/ Enforcement/ Compliance 1802 Compliance Inspection and Support 1805 Investigative Analysis 1810 General Investigation 1811 Criminal Investigator (Special Agents) 1895 Customs and Border Protection 1896 Border Patrol 0025 NPS LE Ranger 1812 FWS LE (not sure if still used) 0082 US Marshal 0083 Police Officer 0080 Security Administration (may be LE position) Good luck! View Quote |
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[#20]
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The bolded ones aren't LE covered positions. The 1801 position for the ATF would be surprisingly be an extremely cool job. Basically just go to gun shops and make sure their records are in compliance and what not, then sit around and talk shop as long as work is all caught up with. I know a guy that went that route and he just goes from shop to shop, does his record checks, hangs out with them for a lil bit if they're cool then files his reports usually from the comfort of home. Not a bad gig. View Quote |
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[#22]
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CBP Air Marine is where you need to look. View Quote I don't think I've ever come across an announcement that wasn't geared towards someone that's already an aviator; someone that isn't a sensor operator from the USAF or USN; or someone that doesn't already have all of their small boat licensing (USCG or USN). |
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[#23]
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[#24]
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You need a 4 year degree in Federal LE. It's just how it is. Use your GI bill. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You should be a 10point preference with the medical discharge which will put you above everyone without a ten point preference. Look up the jobs you're interested in and see what kind of degrees they want and get one of those. Another option if you have some of the jobs local to you, ask the guys there what to do to make yourself the better candidate. You need a 4 year degree in Federal LE. It's just how it is. Use your GI bill. If you have special skills like knowing a second language, knowledge/training in cultural awareness, hold/held an instructor certification and/or ever held a U.S. government Top Secret or better security clearance, this will get you noticed. Granted, I was hired back in 1993 and retired in 2014 as an U.S. DHS/ICE-HSI special agent/criminal investigator (1811). My observation is that many federal agencies flip-flop between military and college backgrounds. Prior to retiring, my agency in 2014, they hired another non-college grad with a military and previous civilian law enforcement background, so its not impossible. Hold off on trying to get hired onto a BORTAC, SRT, SOG, etc... team since that's not going to happen. That's something down the road AFTER your prove to them that you've mastered the basic duties of your primary position first. With that said, still work on getting your degree since it can only help you in life. I don't know about your medical situation or if a medical waiver would be needed, but good luck!! |
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[#25]
The poly is the big thing you have to pass. When a Marine pilot with a secret clearance, flying secret missions, and also flew the president around can't get in, then this needs to be fixed first so people can get hired then do their time and put in for the choice assignments. Glad I came in back in 82, whole different animal nowadays and even happier I retired from the mess.
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[#26]
How did you get on as local LE when you were also active? Or did I mix up some timeframes? Not doubting, just curious how you managed both!
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[#27]
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The poly is the big thing you have to pass. When a Marine pilot with a secret clearance, flying secret missions, and also flew the president around can't get in, then this needs to be fixed first so people can get hired then do their time and put in for the choice assignments. Glad I came in back in 82, whole different animal nowadays and even happier I retired from the mess. View Quote |
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[#28]
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If I read this correctly, He can't get hired because he failed the poly. Ultimately the poly is an open book test. Be truthful in all of your paperwork and answers and then be truthful during the poly. Many get jammed up because they won't fully admit to wrong doing. I'm a Fed Leo and I've been poly'd to get my job. It's not a pleasant experience but necessary for the clearance and position. If you won't tell the truth or only tell parts of the truth you won't make it - regardless of what you did on active duty. View Quote |
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[#29]
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That's nice and all but the problem is that's not how polygraphs actually work. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
If I read this correctly, He can't get hired because he failed the poly. Ultimately the poly is an open book test. Be truthful in all of your paperwork and answers and then be truthful during the poly. Many get jammed up because they won't fully admit to wrong doing. I'm a Fed Leo and I've been poly'd to get my job. It's not a pleasant experience but necessary for the clearance and position. If you won't tell the truth or only tell parts of the truth you won't make it - regardless of what you did on active duty. Please enlighten us. |
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[#30]
Quoted:
Really? So when the subject is being untruthful either by omissions or outright deception and the machine picks up on the subtle changes in breathing, pulse perspiration and etc and the test administrator then drills down on it and the involuntary reactions to his own line of BS continues that's not how it works? Please enlighten us. View Quote Plenty of people have been truthful on polys and been told they were being deceptive. Plenty of those people can relate their experiences are members of this forum too. Read up on how CBP has one of the highest failure rates of polygraphs (something like 80%) and how congress had to step in and start asking questions on how people with military background that hold high level security clearances that have passed polygraphs in the military and being told they failed them in the CBP process for a position with no clearance and is nothing more than a "public trust" designation. |
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[#31]
My best friend is a Deputy US Marshal, he started as a Army MP doing 8 years of that. He then went to US Capital Police did that gig for 10 yrs working uniform service then to SWAT. He did all this with the target of getting to the USMS. He now works in Phoenix and loves it!! But the point is he put his time in and took every extra school and assignment he could.
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[#32]
Quoted:
What if the subject is being truthful and not being deceptive but does have subtle changes in their breathing pattern, pulse, or moves in their seat during a question? That means they are a liar or trying to beat a machine? It's all subjective and not a real science. Plenty of people have been truthful on polys and been told they were being deceptive. Plenty of those people can relate their experiences are members of this forum too. Read up on how CBP has one of the highest failure rates of polygraphs (something like 80%) and how congress had to step in and start asking questions on how people with military background that hold high level security clearances that have passed polygraphs in the military and being told they failed them in the CBP process for a position with no clearance and is nothing more than a "public trust" designation. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Really? So when the subject is being untruthful either by omissions or outright deception and the machine picks up on the subtle changes in breathing, pulse perspiration and etc and the test administrator then drills down on it and the involuntary reactions to his own line of BS continues that's not how it works? Please enlighten us. Plenty of people have been truthful on polys and been told they were being deceptive. Plenty of those people can relate their experiences are members of this forum too. Read up on how CBP has one of the highest failure rates of polygraphs (something like 80%) and how congress had to step in and start asking questions on how people with military background that hold high level security clearances that have passed polygraphs in the military and being told they failed them in the CBP process for a position with no clearance and is nothing more than a "public trust" designation. |
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[#33]
Quoted:
If I read this correctly, He can't get hired because he failed the poly. Ultimately the poly is an open book test. Be truthful in all of your paperwork and answers and then be truthful during the poly. Many get jammed up because they won't fully admit to wrong doing. I'm a Fed Leo and I've been poly'd to get my job. It's not a pleasant experience but necessary for the clearance and position. If you won't tell the truth or only tell parts of the truth you won't make it - regardless of what you did on active duty. View Quote Some might speculate that it was intentionally re-designed this way under the Obama Administration so that the manpower mandate would never be met and would actually result in very thinned out manpower through attrition, retirement, etc. Oddly enough, that's exactly what's been happening. The new poly is in the works and should be out sometime next year. They also just started issuing waivers this year for prior law enforcement and former military personnel holding some sort of clearance. My advice to anyone looking to get in would be to wait until the new poly test comes out. |
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[#34]
Quoted:
Both before the poly and during the poly, subjects are told to sit still, to not move around, tense their muscles, curl their toes, tighten and relax their butt cheeks ( all possible counter measure techniques). If subjects persist in doing this then they are not going to pass. I was mil with the highest clearances and access and now I'm gov with the highest clearances and access. In my experience, guys who vociferously complain about how unfair the poly is are generally guys who were being evasive or employing countermeasures (or both). Plenty of those guys that fail would be considered "good guys / great guys" by peers, subordinates, and superiors. Not everyone who wants to be a LEO should be a LEO and the poly is a way to weed them out or conversely confirm their acceptability for service. View Quote |
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[#35]
Quoted:
The political answer is great and all but it misses certain elements. Just Rincon pointed out below, there are known issues with certain polys with agencies. I took the poly by CBP and was told I was being deceptive but then took the exact same (well, very similar) by another agency and passed. How is that? I work with a guy that was told the same thing by CBP and had no issues on the FBI poly. If you are being deceptive on one and the machine or program is all it's made out to be wouldn't you be deceptive on all tests? View Quote He actually started the job this pay period. |
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[#36]
Quoted:
Really? So when the subject is being untruthful either by omissions or outright deception and the machine picks up on the subtle changes in breathing, pulse perspiration and etc and the test administrator then drills down on it and the involuntary reactions to his own line of BS continues that's not how it works? Please enlighten us. View Quote I failed a poly for a local department, but before I was even hooked up the examiner made it clear he didn't like me for some reason. In retrospect he did a shitty job (made no attempt to clarify answers, did everything he could to increase the stress level, was extremely cold and impersonal). Of course afterwards I did some research - I didn't before because I was certain I'd pass easily since I was telling the truth and had very little to hide, I've led a really boring life for the most part. A couple years later, I took the BP poly, which is supposedly harder by a huge margin. This time the examiner actually explained things, went over the questions to be sure there was no ambiguity or confusion, and made sure I was comfortable with the process. I passed easily. FWIW, doing even casual research will tell you that the polygraph is no where near as reliable or accurate as advertised. Can it be a useful tool? Sure. But just remember, Aldritch Ames passed dozens. |
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[#37]
I hate this thread is going off on this tangent, but... poly is like a canine. It's value is directly proportional to its' handler.
My story - I got tapped to do a task force thing with DEA. Had to take their poly, had passed several (and flunked one) with other agencies, so no sweat. They told me I flunked because I was being deceptive about marijuana use. I had never, ever even tried it. (Still true to this day). I got poly'd again, and same result, but somehow it was smoothed over or something because I got to work with them in spite of that polygraphers' results. As for the one I flunked, it was with a major (for Tennessee, anyway) metro police department. I wasn't old enough to have done anything to DQ me, and too stupid to lie about anything I had done... they never told me what I did wrong, or what they found out about me that was incompatible with their department. (Shrugs) All of that was conventional poly. VRSA is voodoo, plain and simple. |
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[#38]
OP, to qualify as a special agent GL1811 you technically do not have to have a college degree but the applicant field is so competitive that you really do. You don't seem to be too old to go back to school and getting a BS degree. Remember just a BS from any accredited college. Don't kill yourself getting an engineering degree, most guys getting into LE get a criminal justice degree. The good part going federal is you can buy back your Army time and have it count towards your retirement. The bad part is your perception of what the job can be to what it really is can be hugely disappointing. The military is probably the bastion of real kicking in doors and taking names, and that is slowly going away. Remember when it really comes down to it it is all about job satisfaction. It seems that you have kicked in your fair amount of doors. It might be time to let the next generation to have their go at it.
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