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Posted: 5/2/2003 8:38:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 8:37:48 PM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 9:29:33 AM EDT
At least the officers made it home safe.[/imbrolio]
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 9:34:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 9:43:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2003 10:42:59 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 9:58:26 AM EDT
Garand_Shooter, I don't think you're overreacting. Anything that makes people see you as the enemy should be a cause for concern. In my opinion, your safety, as someone who works to help people (especially as a volunteer), is more important than the few extra seconds of surprise the LEO's get out of the use of the vehicle.z
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 11:17:46 AM EDT
We use an ambulance most of the time, but we keep it out of sight when deploying personnel out of it. Btw it is a fully loaded paramedic unit. Usually the containment team or arrest team are in it. But never the entry team.We have thought about the ramifications of using it and they should be considered. It all depends on how high of a profile you use it.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 11:51:11 AM EDT
Garand_Shooter, I doubt that they were trying to keep the "super Secret Assault Vehicle" from being exposed. They probably stayed inside it to keep the fact that they were about to initiate a raid secret. If they all piled out, it would have tipped off the badguy(s) that they were about to get busted. Obviously, once they initiate the raid, the fact that they are using that vehicle would become obvious to anyone in the vicinity. Chill out :)
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 12:31:07 PM EDT
Sounds like everyone is overreacting. Using a former ambulance as a raid vehicle isn't that big of a deal. Heck, on the East Coast, some of the "tactical" vehicles are just ambulances with PD markings instead of EMS. Getting that worked up over the element of suprise is a little OT, too. Your raid vehicle shouldn't be stopped close enough to the target most of the time for the BGs to ever see it, anyway, so what it looks like (or doesn't look like) should be a moot point. Our raid vehicle has been in the shop when we needed it a few times. We just cobbled together enough unmarkeds and deployed a little further out, formed up and moved to the target. I have deployed out of the bed of a pickup (laying flat until we rolled up) a few times, too. I am far from graceful, and hit the ground in a pretty big pile of gear, once (watch those rolling dismounts). There is always an alternative, though I don't think a former ambulance would have been my first (or second) choice.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 12:53:20 PM EDT
I also agree that it's an overreaction. I've been in the fire service for over 25 years and people don't pay as much attention as you think they do. Every time I go into a school for an inspection, the kids all lthe way from kindergarten to high school see the uniform and the badge (nevermind that I also wear a ball cap with big letters that say FIRE DEPT on it) and start pointing and saying It's the police, "I didn't do it, arrest him/her.")And, even if they did notice, the only ones who will be concerned are the ones who are doing illegal activities.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 1:01:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 1:42:52 PM EDT
Overreacting.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:47:45 AM EDT
Overreacting. The trailer park dwellers better get used to seeing the police before they see medical or fire units. In many places, the medics (and sometimes fire) will not go on scene until a police unit (or two) is already there. Police, fire, and ambulances are linked to each other in the minds of most people, anyway. Dave
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 12:09:42 PM EDT
Over reacting git over it. Every one came home safe, and that is the bottom line.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 1:19:00 PM EDT
SBC (Pacific Bell) donated a few trucks to the city of S.F. a few years ago, The cops did a few raids in them and now at least once a year a tech will get a gun pulled on them or a beating. It was coomon knowledge all us techs were planting bugs or snitching for the feds as far as the gangbangers were concerned. I think the guy has a point, as a cop you have to be crafty in new ways to catch the bad guys off guard but not at the risk of those who dont pack heat at work. IMHO
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 8:00:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter: These guys were so concerned with thier own safety as far as keeping the element of suprise by not revealing thier vehicle to the public, but could care less that thier actions have now placed every firefighter, medic, and other worker at a greater risk.
View Quote
So in your line of thinking, every "moron" (your word) in patrol is putting grandmas all across America at risk because they drive Crown Vics, right? I mean, grandma'a liable to drive up to the grocery store and someone could mistake her for the Police and shoot her. Our SWAT van is a Chevy panel truck. Are we putting every bread truck driver in the country at risk now??
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 8:36:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 8:38:34 PM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 8:39:07 PM EDT
So your not concerned that the County SRT truck is in poor repair, but that they used an EMS truck? We've started having the TRT or EOD truck towed to scenes. I don't think they compromised anyones safety by using an ambulance.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 8:47:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 8:56:48 PM EDT
I think they should have used other dept. vehicles if their truck broke down. It was a poor choice to use another depts. vehicle. However emergency govt. vehicles are used for a variety of missions including supporting LEA's. When it comes right down to it however, it was the SO that arrested, or searched, based on on a warrant. The bad guys know it was cops, not anyone else.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 9:39:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 10:00:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2003 10:02:54 AM EDT by PaDanby]
I don't necessarily think it is over-reacting about the ambulance. I can see why the EMS folks ain't happy. Anything that increases the paranoia of the paranoid is going to effect them. They definitely don't need folks thinking an ambulance is a raid vehicle. Why does a 35,000 person county need 2 underfunded SWAT teams? Do they even need 1? Is the crime problem so rampant? Why not just a perimeter sealing and call on the phone or bull horn to come on out? What are you going to lose? So what if they flush the evidence? You've got the result you want the drugs off the street and the BG is gonna have to come out at some point. Heck, in a 35k county, you probably are on a first name basis with the perp anyway, call him up, tell him it's over and come on out. Maybe have his Grandma call him out. Unless you are absolutely convinced he is going to take hostages why play by the Hollywood hype? Then again, in a 35k county, how secret was the vehicle anyway? All the bg's are gonna know about it after the first raid if not before. They didn't have the trustees wshing it did they?
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 7:40:45 PM EDT
You are overreacting, Hell my team has a unit of Tactical Paramedics that drive ambulances, We will stage out of an ambulance if thats what we gotta do to remedy the situation. The county ambulances we have will not go to our trailer parks without the P.D. anyway.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 8:03:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2003 8:05:49 PM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 8:14:27 PM EDT
They SHould of used thier own personal automobiles. By the way what was so speacil about thier super secret auto.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 9:39:17 PM EDT
I agree, but its not our (P.D.) fault that fire and EMS will call for a zone car before doing the job they signed on for is it.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 9:42:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 2:18:07 PM EDT
Overreacting If an ambulance/E.M.S vehicle pulls into my driveway then I most probably was the one who called them.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 6:13:20 PM EDT
You guys need to think out of the box so to speak. You are looking at it from the LEO point of view. Look at it from the paranoid perp point of view. If he's running a meth lab and he see's his competition taken down by an ambulance, what's he gonna think when the EMS rolls to the elderly Ms Jones 2 trailers down in about a week? What little grey matter left is gonna think they are coming for him.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 6:43:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:44:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 3:52:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 3:57:13 PM EDT by chetbango]
As a fire/medic that regularly uses ambulances, it would bother me if the SWAT team was using something that to most people looked like my ambulance to do raids. Our ambulances are white and red, and if the SWAT team used the same vehicle with the same paint job and only minor differences in lettering, I would have a problem with it. Our local SWAT teams use our old ambulances, but they repaint them green or black and there is no doubt to the casual observer that they are a PD unit. If they painted the SWAT rigs to intentionally fool people into thinking they were an ambulance, to be more 'covert', I would have major problems with that. If they want to be "covert" paint it like a bread truck, oh no wait, then bread truck delivery drivers would be put at risk... hmm best keep it like a police vehicle, or no markings. I would approach your fire chief about asking the police chief to make the markings more obviously different than yours. I know my chief would not even think about letting PD units use our old vehicles without the repaint, as it does put us at greater risk. I wouldn't get too upset as this particular case seams to be a one time deal, but if the vehicle may be used again in the future for the same thing, IMHO a repaint would be indicated.
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