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Posted: 6/27/2002 10:20:31 PM EDT
I am interested on what systems of unarmed suspect control you or your department trains with. I am a corrections officer in a mid sized county detention center (Aprox 1100 inmates). For the last 8 or so years we have trained using PPCT with mixed results. Being unarmed and having to engage Inmates on a daily basis the local P.D and County as well as the highway patrol has started to refer to us as the Battle Dome or UFC CO as in ultimate fighting champion corrections officers. Has anyone switched from PPCT to a more effective system?
Link Posted: 6/28/2002 11:13:49 AM EDT
We used OC spray. We carried ASP's but never used them. We used the MK-4 sized cans on individuals, and if we had a major disruption we used the foggers. 9 times out of 10 an inmate just seeing your OC spray would give up and comply.
Link Posted: 6/28/2002 7:00:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2002 7:00:49 PM EDT by Striker]
Link Posted: 6/28/2002 10:51:51 PM EDT
Ok here is the deal. First thanks for your replies and they all make perfect sense. But here is the problem that I am running into. We deploy Chem agents only in a OMFG situation sue to our air exchangers being about 90% over taxed as is the secondary contamination is the mother F*cker. Admin has taken a big poo poo on our batons or ASP's for general use due to bleeding hearts and bean counting lawyers. Some background on our center we are the largest Detention facility in the state and one of the last that uses direct supervision.(locked in the living areas with the inmates) What I am looking for is unarmed defensive technics with a minimal liability for excessive force complaints, (And a pony and my very own room.) Tall order I know but any experiences or training sources out there that I am missing or am I doomed to the mercy of the county board and their fears of being sued. Thanks again for responding.
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 6:52:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 7:05:02 AM EDT
Verbal Judo[:D]
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 7:10:18 AM EDT
Flashlights work pretty good.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 9:03:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2002 9:04:51 PM EDT by Pretzelboy]
By PPCT, do you mean the pressure points such as infra-orbital, mandibular angle, clavical notch, etc.? Basically, trying to gain control through non-injurious pain-compliance? Most agencies really don't seem to have a system of unarmed SD tactics in use. Officers receive training at the academy which varies over the years and seldom more than a refresher or two after that. Tactics/training lean towards take-downs for cuffing and weapons retention techniques. Much of it goes out the window as the conflict progresses into a wrestling match. I have been trained on the pressure points as a method of gaining compliance from non-violent resistors or as a method of coaxing a prisoner to move here or there or sit down when unwilling. If the system is beginning to fail for your agency, I suggest contacting a trainer and getting everyone back up to speed. Give it another go before switching. Keep in mind that officers generally retain only a fraction of the techniques unless the train constantly and consistently.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 1:09:39 PM EDT
Must... not... make... really... bad... jokes... NOOOOO!! The best way to control suspects is a cell-phone with 911 on autodial. But seriously, would those Tazer guns be a viable option? They are supposed to produce mechanical stops, though they are't real forgiving of bad aim or multiple targets.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 3:20:53 AM EDT
A firehose and blackjack in a bag. Ah, the good old days.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:50:51 AM EDT
We are using a culmination of techniques, but PPCT is still the basis for it all. Most of the new, good stuff comes from brazilian jiu-jitsu/vale tudo style techniques. I've practiced brazilian jiu-jitsu for about 6 years and have used it exclusively since then. Fortunately, most of the arm locks & shoulder locks in PPCT were bastardized from jiu-jitsu, so the two kind of go hand in hand anyway. That's important. You don't want to be using a technique that a defense attorney can call a "deadly submission". You want all of the techniques to have a "post approved" title to keep yourself out of trouble. Especially with the current view of hand to hand techniques in the legal system. It seems that they would rather see you get beat into a coma rather than you use a Technique that's too harsh. (yeesh, sorry for the ramble)
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:56:23 AM EDT
i usually just kick them in the nuts.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 4:41:27 PM EDT
my favorite tool: TASER M26 hands down the most effective tool i have ever used on any non-compliant subject regardless of mental state he or she is in. works through clothing and even if the subject has illicit material onboard as well (unlike some subjects wtih pepper spray). very short recovery time is the best and there is no "vicarious effect" on me as i am transporting them to jail or elsewhere; whereas chemical sprays tend to affect me in the car as well. taser, taser, taser.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 9:57:53 AM EDT
I agree, the M26 is an awesome Taser product. Unlike the old style weaker wattage tasers of a decade ago. Those sucked. My department lets us carry the Gonzalez "415" lead filled sap! I love that. Works great even when you just pull it out of your sap pocket on a big assed pissed of suspect. Usually when they just see that, it instills thoughts of cops back in the 30's, 40's and 50's. (aka: The hot years)-->before my time. Also we can use the CS/OC spray (clear out), but I agree, it gets all over the place. Of course a good Streamlight/ASP/PR-24 are all authorized for us too. Whatever we want. But...like I said, nothing beats a good ol' sap.
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