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Posted: 1/2/2002 7:30:52 AM EDT
Since I just got a M1 carbine for Christmas, it's sparked a few questions. I just loaded up some rounds to go out and shoot, but I have to say looking at the ballistic tables, it sucks. Why in the world did the military adopt such an abortion of a cartridge. I realize this was designed as a rear echelon weapon. But, why not just chamber it for the then current pistol cartridge .45? Is the .30carbine the same as the .32winchester special? Or, is it an adaptation of that round? Anyone here ever carry one in combat? I just can't see why in a time of stream-lining and mass production(WWII), the military would go to all the trouble of designing, and adopting a brand new gun with a brand new odd ball cartridge. BTW, I love my M1 carbine! Just want to know why they chambered it in .30 carbine. Thanks, guns762
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 8:00:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2002 8:01:38 AM EDT by Bearlaker]
The M1 carbine has more energy at 100yds than a .357 mag pistol has at the muzzle. Wish I had one.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 12:11:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 2:09:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By guns762: Is the .30carbine the same as the .32winchester special? Or, is it an adaptation of that round?
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The .32 Winchester Special is MUCH more 'powerful' than the wimpy .30 Carbine (which is a glorified pistol cartridge). -Forest [i]Proud owner of his Grandpa's Model 94 Winchester in .32 Winchester Special.[/i]
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I'm envious of your 94. Sorry, I think I kept seeing references to the .32 Win special in reloading books descibing the .30 carbine. I thought the .32 was quite a bit larger cartridge. So, why did they choose a "glorified pistol cartridge" in stead of something already in use? Bearlaker, many of the load books I was using stated that the .30 carbine had about the same "power" as the .357mag. One even stated it was on par with the .38 special! I should of looked up the energy my self. I'm going to go back and look again, but most of the manuals had little good to say about the .30carbine as a cartridge. Most said it was adequate for small game(some predetors) at close range.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 2:15:34 PM EDT
The .30 M-1 carbine round is based on the equally anemic .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge, not to be confused with the more powerful .32 Winchester Special. The idea was that the M-1 carbine would be used by support troops as a replacement for the handgun. It was never intended for use as a rifle in front line combat and did not do well when used in this role.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 3:42:43 PM EDT
Hmm..... An M1 carbine for Christmas. I'd be lucky to get a staple gun. I am jealous! Heh, heh. John
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:14:30 PM EDT
-Forest [i]Proud owner of his Grandpa's Model 94 Winchester in .32 Winchester Special.[/i]
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Ah .. another member of the Model 94 Winchester in .32 Winchester Special Club. Mine was my great uncle's, my Grandfathers, my Father's and now my very own. Ryan
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:21:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 199: The .30 M-1 carbine round is based on the equally anemic .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge, not to be confused with the more powerful .32 Winchester Special. The idea was that the M-1 carbine would be used by support troops as a replacement for the handgun. It was never intended for use as a rifle in front line combat and did not do well when used in this role.
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Actually, it received many good reports from front-line troops in WW2. The bad rep came from Korea, with the inception of the M-2. It had a horriffic muzzle climb on auto, which no doubt inspired the "he took a full 30 rounds and kept coming" horror stories. Everyone knows GI's never miss(especially if they are telling the story.) With modern soft/hollowpoints it should be a good short/intermediate range weapon.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:08:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:56:33 PM EDT
In combat, I would prefer a M-1 carbine to a 1911. In street/jungle fighting, I could see the real advantages of a thirty round Carbine over an eight round Garand. It does get a bad rap, but I loved mine and still regret having sold it.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 2:44:56 AM EDT
I have an Inland M-1 and I love it. It also has the folding paratrooper stock . I think it would have made a very good patrol carbine for police in it's day... [50]
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 2:53:42 AM EDT
The round is from the 351 SL. It's a great survival weapon, but given dwindling supplies of surplus ammo, it's lost some of its sheen. [img]kurts-kustom-firearms.cityslide.com/i/7/77/772/7726/77260/772602/M1Carb.JPG[/img]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 7:10:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 7:11:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:10:16 PM EDT
I can also imagine the M-2 as a great alternative to the grease gun.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 10:32:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Callahan44m: Actually, it received many good reports from front-line troops in WW2. The bad rep came from Korea, with the inception of the M-2.
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I've seen some bad reports on the cartridge from WWII vets. My take on it is the guys in the Pacific loved the little carbine, while the guys in Europe didn't think much of it.
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The Marines made considerable use of the carbine in the Pacific as a front line combat arm. My dad's buddy who fought on Guadacanal, Guam and Okinawa had his Garand replaced by a carbine, which he then used for the rest of the war. I never asked him what he thought of the carbine, and now it's too late . . . Some of the guys who served in Europe liked the carbine, too. One negative story on the carbine comes from [i]after[/i] the war, when soldiers went deer hunting in Germany, and the deer kept running after lots and lots of hits . . .
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 10:50:43 PM EDT
Had a M-2 for a while , it was in so-so shape . Gave it to my dad as a present for his 60th . He loves them darn things for some reason , actually had a tear in his eye and secretly I wish I kept it . It was a joy to carry in the woods and was actually lighter than my Marlin model 60 22lr that I tote around now .[:\]
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 10:48:24 PM EDT
I heard some of the Detroit police cars carry M1 carbines in thier trunks. I am seriosly looking to get a M1 carbine, hopefully its my next gun unless I hit the lottery and I will get me a M1A.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 12:35:30 PM EDT
Just fired mine for the first time yesterday! It was pretty cool to shoot, but the accuracy was not what I call fantastic. It shot about 1" 5 shot groups at 25yds-yuck, and about 2" 5 shot groups at 50yds-eeewwww! It was also about 3"s hight at 50yds. It could be my reloads, I might try some different combos or try some factory ammo, but no one around here has any. I will have to order some later. I noticed a ever so slight nick near the crown-uh oh. I don't know if it pushed in enough to buldge the edge of the crown or not, probably did considering the accuracy. Any one tell me what I should be getting with the M1? Still love the gun though, I even had the mag pouch on the stock! What a hoot!
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 4:02:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2002 4:05:13 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 10:39:31 AM EDT
Does anyone have any experience with the Chrome Lined .30 Carbine barrels.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 10:00:00 AM EDT
Hi, My Dad was in the marines in the south Pacfic, From Mid 42 to late 45, he started on New Georgia and worked his way up. He carried the M1 Carbine. He said he loved it in the thick stuff. His reasons were it was light, quick handling, easy to operate, reliable and fast fireing. In the South Pacific jungle islands noone had quilted winter coats and the fighting was from your nose onward and the carbine did it's job very well. Korea the terrian was lots more open and the foe was winter clothed alot of the time so the carbine was under powered. Dad still keeps a carbine as his house rifle, he lives in the mountains and at most would have a 75yd field of fire arround it. And at 80 he can still plug a mag in, rack the bolt and hammer it home, shoulders it and eats a man target up @100yds slick as butter. As for shooting, with Georgia Arms 115gr soft pts it shoots less than 2" @100 from prone. It's a Universal with a Gi recoil spring installed, he said the old spring was too weak. Over several thousand rnds, it has done it's job, and been a favorite of all who shot it. Is it a agreat choice today, no, But then again, if there's work to do, I'll take the 2002 F-150 over the 1940 F-10 Ford pickup truck. JB
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 10:12:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DREWTPD: I have an Inland M-1 and I love it. It also has the folding paratrooper stock . I think it would have made a very good patrol carbine for police in it's day... [50]
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We still use them in the M-2 configuration. It's day as a patrol carbine has passed(at least just about everywhere but here).
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 12:53:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: We still use them in the M-2 configuration. It's day as a patrol carbine has passed(at least just about everywhere but here).
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Until very recently the U.S. Bureau of Prisons used them. Now they have AR-15’s (which - I’m told - everybody has to qualify with: teachers, doctors, nurses, bus drivers, everybody!!)
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 2:25:28 PM EDT
I have two M1 carbines a totally original Inland WW2 GI bringback, and a Rock Island Arsenal rebuilt Inland/Underwood stamp-over(rare)Korean war. In WW2, in the tropics, it was fine, as it was in Vietnam. The bad rap came from the Korean war. The PKLA troops were dressed with so many layers of clothing in winter that they would wince when hit then keep coming. Hackworth mentions this in his book, 'About Face'...Of course the carbine was built to replace the 1911A1, and they built 7,000,000 carbines....Gib
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 12:30:09 AM EDT
i was watching History channel awhile back and they said that especially for urban fighting the rifle was truly grand. even the germans loved it and went out of their way to try and capture one if the chance presented itself. after that i got to noticing them in german possesion occasionally in ww2 photos.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 11:28:07 AM EDT
Yup, I hear there were Germans everywhere dropping those crappy 8mm Kurtz based assualt rifles and picking up M1 carbines for their many functional advantages .....
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:31:05 PM EDT
Ok but you said that not me. I was a little off topic so i didnt want to go with a big detailed post. I also thought when i threw my 2 cents in i was giving my opinion not buyin a vegetable. Anyway i made the assumption that they were tossin their mausers because they're long and cumbersome in an urban environment and picking up the M1 because as you've said your self in the M4 thread, carbines are light and nimble. As for the Sturmgewehr which i'm sure they preferred it was never manufactured in enough numbers to seriously outfit the German army. It took Hitler forever to come around and give permission to mass produce the rifle so in the the meantime all they could do was make a few and ship em out the backdoor. If your runnin through and crawlin over a bunch of rubble while tryin to carry a Mauser and there layed a little carbine with a 30 rnd magazine what would you do?
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:51:32 AM EDT
I don't get the vegetable anaology. I will give you the K98 vs M1 Carbine in an urban setting trade... The Germans had a significant number or weapons that worked well in close up fighting.. ON THE WHOLE, I don't think the M1 Carbine was "the thing to have" for the common German infantryman. Carbines are a trade off of weight vs killing capacity. The anemic (in my opinion) M1 Carbine does not stand out as a good trade off in the ETO setting...
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 9:26:31 PM EDT
Ok let me modify my side of the discussion a little. I dug into some videotapes and after a little lookin around i saw a pic of a German tanker with a M1 which given the confines of a tank i guess that speaks for itself and an infantryman who still had his Mauser strapped to his back but was also sporting a carbine. So it might be more correct to assume that they was'nt tossin anything aside just picking up a handy little rifle when given the chance. Also nevermind the veg thing it was an insult brought on by a marital disagreement that i wish to retract now. Postings not a good idea when your in a bad mood.
Link Posted: 2/16/2002 8:41:23 PM EDT
Compare the carbine to the alternatives. At realistic battle ranges it was much better than the bolt actions the enemy carried. The cartridge is better than any SMG round, including .45acp when you consider range. It was powerful enough, accurate enough, and faster to fight than anything else. It's actually a pretty good rifle and served well. Remember that the -06 didn't put em down every time either. The Korean war carbines that gave trouble were WWII rebuilds that had tired springs etc. Read Marshall's Korean studies.
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