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Posted: 3/13/2006 6:43:36 PM EDT
I have a Sistema 1911 that was made in 1945 that I want a mate for.

So I was curious... what was the standard issue AR for the USA and Argentina in 1945?

What duo would I expect to find in the hands of a GI that included a 1911? I know that the 1911 was standard issue for USGIs and the Sistema started production in Argentina in 1945, so I want to find a rifle of the same year.

I appreciate the help and I hope my question makes sense. Thanks
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:09:49 PM EDT
You question was hard to understand but, if you are asking what rifle would be in the hands of your average GI carrying a 1911A1 circa 1945, the list is long. Depending on their role in the armed forces the soldier could have carried:

1)M1 Garand
2)Browning BAR
3)Thompson 1928/M1
4)M1 Carbine
5)M3 Grease Gun
6) or been on a crew served weapon gun crew(ex. Browning .30cal)

As for Argentines in '45 my best guess for a long gun would be an 8mm Mauser.

HTH

Blitz
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:24:59 PM EDT
A reising model 50 would have been an option then too no?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:07:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blitzkreig:
You question was hard to understand but, if you are asking what rifle would be in the hands of your average GI carrying a 1911A1 circa 1945, the list is long. Depending on their role in the armed forces the soldier could have carried:

1)M1 Garand
2)Browning BAR
3)Thompson 1928/M1
4)M1 Carbine
5)M3 Grease Gun
6) or been on a crew served weapon gun crew(ex. Browning .30cal)

As for Argentines in '45 my best guess for a long gun would be an 8mm Mauser.

HTH

Blitz



Hell, why not one of those 7.65 argie mausers? SOMEBODY's gotta shoot that shit.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:42:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 7:43:26 PM EDT by netwt12]

... what was the standard issue AR for the USA and Argentina in 1945?




i guess the AR-M1 Garand & the AR-Mauser

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:56:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By killingmachine123:
A reising model 50 would have been an option then too no?


An option, yes, but yet another firearm on the heap of "Tried to come up with a cheap replacement
for something that works great, but costs more to make" (the Thompson in this case).

ISTR that the Reising was pretty much limited to the Pacific theater, used mainly by Marines or
Coast Guard, and wasn't very highly thought of.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:51:30 AM EDT
Thanks for the help...

It's an akward question, I did my best.

So probably a M1 Garand for a US Soldier and an 8mm Mauser for an Argentinian?

I'm looking at your standard infantry grunt, no special units, or weapon crews.

Curiousity got the better of me, hehe... again, sorry for the akwardness of the question.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 12:47:02 PM EDT
Argentine 1909 possibly. Most definately a mauser.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 12:57:52 PM EDT
FYI
AR refers to a type of weapon, the AR15, not to rifles in general.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 3:48:28 PM EDT
The 03 was used in ww2 and Korea.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 9:45:53 AM EDT
Thanks again everyone... I've been doing soem of my own research and see the 1909 show up a lot as well. I've been looking to see what I can find, but finding one that's all original is either rediculously expensive or just downright hard.

@thedoctors308,
I'm still trying to get used to the lingo. For years I've used AR to refer to an "Assault Rifle" of any sort. Sorry for the confusion.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:31:16 PM EDT
In 1945 the only country with an Assault Rifle was Nazi Germany.

Assault rifle: Defined as a selective fire rifle, chambering intermediate-powered ammunition.

Common "Assault rifle" calibers: 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 5.45x39etc
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:17:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:18:09 AM EDT by Blitzkreig]

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
In 1945 the only country with an Assault Rifle was Nazi Germany.

Assault rifle: Defined as a selective fire rifle, chambering intermediate-powered ammunition.

Common "Assault rifle" calibers: 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 5.45x39etc



Check your info. most would argue that the M2(selective fire M1 Carbine) meets the def of "Assault rifle" and was in service before the German STG series.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:25:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blitzkreig:
Check your info. most would argue that the M2(selective fire M1 Carbine) meets the def of "Assault rifle" and was in service before the German STG series.



Maybe, but I think saying the .30 Carbine round is "intermediate" in power is pushing things a bit.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:52:42 AM EDT
The "AR" is infact an assault rifle which in many cases blended the roles of the rifle and the SMG (especially so in today's military with the tactical carbines). It was developed late in WWII by the Germans (the design later inspiration for Kalashnikov's AK).

I would contend the backbone of the US military was the M1 Garand, semiautomatic rifle with 8 rd clip, and this would be the analogus field piece with respect to today's soldier armed with a 20" M-16.

A weaker argument would be the Thompson SMG or its replacement, the Grease gun (a .45 cal SMG) might be analogous to those carrying a tactical carbine for CQB in city/house-to house fighting. While the AR's role is used in the same way these SMGs would be used then it is an entirely different animal.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:27:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blitzkreig:

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
In 1945 the only country with an Assault Rifle was Nazi Germany.

Assault rifle: Defined as a selective fire rifle, chambering intermediate-powered ammunition.

Common "Assault rifle" calibers: 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 5.45x39etc



Check your info. most would argue that the M2(selective fire M1 Carbine) meets the def of "Assault rifle" and was in service before the German STG series.




I stand by my statement. The 30carbine isnt really an intermediate cartridge.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:34:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:

Originally Posted By Blitzkreig:

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
In 1945 the only country with an Assault Rifle was Nazi Germany.

Assault rifle: Defined as a selective fire rifle, chambering intermediate-powered ammunition.

Common "Assault rifle" calibers: 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 5.45x39etc



Check your info. most would argue that the M2(selective fire M1 Carbine) meets the def of "Assault rifle" and was in service before the German STG series.




I stand by my statement. The 30carbine isnt really an intermediate cartridge.



it's not and that's why the stg 44 was the worlds first assault rifle
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 1:01:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:

Originally Posted By Blitzkreig:

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
In 1945 the only country with an Assault Rifle was Nazi Germany.

Assault rifle: Defined as a selective fire rifle, chambering intermediate-powered ammunition.

Common "Assault rifle" calibers: 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 5.45x39etc



Check your info. most would argue that the M2(selective fire M1 Carbine) meets the def of "Assault rifle" and was in service before the German STG series.




I stand by my statement. The 30carbine isnt really an intermediate cartridge.



it's not and that's why the stg 44 was the worlds first assault rifle



Thankyou
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