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Posted: 11/29/2005 8:45:23 AM EDT

http://members.aol.com/bear317d/scorpion.htm

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-s/ssn589-k.htm

I noted that someone mentioned that this forum was slow. I submit this for your information and discussion. The links posted are some of the best, there are other sources.
I have a very personal interest in this story as my cousin (Michael Edward Dunn) is one of the 99 men that were lost when this vessel went down on 22 May 1968.
I have the Court of Inquiry report, JAG report and about everything published on this topic.
If you are into submarines, the cold war or just a good mystery it is an interesting story.

Having read all the official documents that the USN would provide as well as information from other sources, I can not say for sure what caused this vessel to be lost. I do know that for many years the USN did not tell the families the truth.

Israel lost a submarine, the INS Dakar on 25 January 1968 under mysterious circumstances.

Only in recent history did we learn of the traitor Walker who was providing intel on our submarines to the Soviets. (I would love to be on a firing squad for that POS)

I have letters from my cousin that indicate that the Scorpion had mechanical problems.

Accident or foul play? Someone knows.



Link Posted: 11/29/2005 10:30:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2005 1:41:51 PM EDT by Spiff]
I think I would still go with the accident theory. The Mk37 torpedo was known to have problems.

I can't conceive that the Soviets would attack a US sub, risking nuclear conflagration, just for spying on a group of their ships/subs. Spying on each other was SOP during the cold war. What possible information could the sub have gotten from a periscope or sonar scan (passive?) that the Soviets might think was worth war?

Also I would think that Walkers information was far to valuable a resourse to risk being compromised unless there was a *very* good reason for doing so. It would seem probable the Soviets would treat Walker like the Allies treated the Ultra messages during WWII. I would think that they would do nothing to make the US suspicious to the point of really looking to see if codes had been compromised.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 1:33:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SouthsideSlim:
http://members.aol.com/bear317d/scorpion.htm

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-s/ssn589-k.htm

I noted that someone mentioned that this forum was slow. I submit this for your information and discussion. The links posted are some of the best, there are other sources.
I have a very personal interest in this story as my cousin (Michael Edward Dunn) is one of the 99 men that were lost when this vessel went down on 22 May 1968.
I have the Court of Inquiry report, JAG report and about everything published on this topic.
If you are into submarines, the cold war or just a good mystery it is an interesting story.

Having read all the official documents that the USN would provide as well as information from other sources, I can not say for sure what caused this vessel to be lost. I do know that for many years the USN did not tell the families the truth.

Israel lost a submarine, the INS Dakar on 25 January 1968 under mysterious circumstances.

Only in recent history did we learn of the traitor Walker who was providing intel on our submarines to the Soviets. (I would love to be on a firing squad for that POS)

I have letters from my cousin that indicate that the Scorpion had mechanical problems.

Accident or foul play? Someone knows.






I am sure you must have, but did you read Blind Mans Bluff? I know they went into great detail and did some in depth study of seismic charts and came to the conclusion it was a torpedo going off...at least that is what the evidence pointed to (it was either the Scorpion or the Thresher...)
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 4:19:54 AM EDT
Accident. Sunk itself with a faulty torpedo. The sub has been located and visited by remote vehicles.

The Walkers will not be executed even though they deserve it. Items of information they were passing to the Russians included the locations of LRRP teams operating in Vietnam. Men died because of them. It was the largest intelligence breach in American history and cost the US billions to recover from. the families o the dead will never recovertheir losses. They actually got only table scraps for the value of the information they were passing to the Russians.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 6:54:47 PM EDT
Ditto the accident theory. Dr. John Craven gives a pretty good description of the recreation of the accident in Blind Man`s Bluff.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 7:05:15 PM EDT
Did the navy ever "find" the "lost" warning about the torpedo batteries? Or is it a matter of "gotta cover my ass if I want that next promotion"
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 5:02:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 5:02:27 AM EDT by Bubblehead597]
I have always held (and still do) a suspisious view for the reported true cause of the sinking. One can either believe that a hot-running torpedo caused it or you can believe that the truth will never be revealed.

I believe the latter.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:41:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 7:41:55 AM EDT by Spiff]

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:
I have always held (and still do) a suspisious view for the reported true cause of the sinking. One can either believe that a hot-running torpedo caused it or you can believe that the truth will never be revealed.

I believe the latter.



I think the exact cause will never be known for certain. Which allows us all to believe what we will, depending on our frame of mind.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:51:48 AM EDT
Does the Navy still check the Scorpion and the Thresher for radiation leaks? I think I read they do this yearly. Also, are the MK45 Astor warheads on the Scorpion intact? If so, do they have visual evidence of their still being present on the boat?

Bob Ballard checked each site and mapped/photographed each boat extensively a few years ago. Is there a site that has those pic's or are they classified? I've seen a few pic's, but not many.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 10:07:20 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:59:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By redleg13a:
Does the Navy still check the Scorpion and the Thresher for radiation leaks? I think I read they do this yearly. Also, are the MK45 Astor warheads on the Scorpion intact? If so, do they have visual evidence of their still being present on the boat?

Bob Ballard checked each site and mapped/photographed each boat extensively a few years ago. Is there a site that has those pic's or are they classified? I've seen a few pic's, but not many.




I think most pics of the Scorpion`s hull are classified. I see the same pics over and over again and most are the ones taken by the USS Mizar back in 1968. I think the Navy released some video footage from Ballard`s second trip to Scorpion and that is just of the hull and some exposed pipes. Supposedly the USS Halibut and the Mizar got extensive shots of the both K 129 and Scorpion that showed human remains. The Navy had ROVs enter the K-129, and probably the Scorpion as well. We won`t see any of that footage anytime soon. As for radiation leaks, none have been reported at the Thresher or Scorpion wreck sites. So I would assume any warheads are intact or have been recovered.

I thought it was interesting when Ballard admitted on film his first search for the Titanic was really a trial of a new generation of ROVs to assess the Thresher and Scorpion sites.
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