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Posted: 12/16/2003 2:41:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 2:43:28 PM EDT by obershutze916]


I am sure this is a late war experament, but do any of you have any ideas? (yes, I know it is a JU88) If anyone can blow up the writing on the top right, I could translate.

This one is real. It is not fake. I have assured that. I have seen wood burning truck engines, but nothing like this. It looks to have large compressed gas tanks on the side near the cab.

Could this be an early jet (or more likely - rocket) engine test?

Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:14:43 PM EDT
Ramjet.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 1:26:11 PM EDT
I can see the Ju88 mabe having a ramjet engine, but the intake looks too small. It could still be be a protoytpe of some sort. It does not look like any fielded German engine I have seen. The thing on the truck is not a jet in any way, the shape is wrong.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 1:36:40 PM EDT
Pulse-jet motors
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:33:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 2:43:33 PM EDT by WinstonSmith]
Aw man, you got the hooks in me on that top pic.. Blew it up in Photoshop, and the text goes all sour when magnified. I was sure it was a testbed for the pulsejet used in the V-1.. I mean hey, look.. The thing is top-mounted just like a buzzbomb, right? Wrooooooong. It's a Ramjet indeed. The plane also is not a JU-88. Though they were used for some testing of jets, the units were slung underneath rather than top mounted. Near as I can tell, the plane is a Dornier Do 17Z with a Lorin ramjet. Check out the top photo on the linked page below, I think that's it. Most confusing to me was that at first glance, the pic you posted looked like a single-engined plane. After comparing little stuff in the pics like antenna locations and the bracing structure of the ramjet, I'm pretty confident though. Oh yea, this wasn't late war either, these tests evidently occurred from '41 on. Info comes from: [url]http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Do17/Do17.htm [/url] The truck could be anything, and my bet is that the engine on it isn't even close to a production model. Looks like a proof of concept test to me. (edited to make link hot..)
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:34:34 PM EDT
Winston is correct. The top picture is a Do 17 (I don't think it's the bigger 217) with a Lorin ramjet. Ju-88 usually has a single vertical fin, although both aircraft possess a similar layout. I can't tell what the bottom picture is. From my limited understanding, both pulse and ramjets rely on an airflow for proper operation. It's open on both ends, so it's evidently air-breathing. This means it isn't a rocket.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:47:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 11:11:38 PM EDT by Atencio]
Good research guys. I was concentrating on the jet engine and totally overlooked the rear tail on the bomber. With proper plane identification the rest of the information was easy to find. I do not think it is a Do-217. The fuselauge on a 217 seems to go noticeably farther back past the rear wings then a Do-17 does.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 2:56:13 AM EDT
I'm not a rocket scientist, nor do I play one in the movies, but... I would go with pulse jet testing in the top picture. A pulse jet just needs airflow through the front and it can work. As I understand ramjets, they require extremely high speeds in order to get sufficient pressure to work. Thus, the truck and probably the aircraft would not be fast enough for a true ramjet. The device on the truck is weird. It appears that the front end of the tube is open. I don't think I can come up with anything practical there.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 4:31:13 AM EDT
I read on a little about the Do 17 and the Lorin ramjet, and came up with some stuff.. Apparently the Lorin ramjet engine had a plane designed around it that never came to production though parts were being made by the end of the war. That plane was to use a detatchable carriage for takeoff, with dumb rockets getting it up to 200mph or so on the ground which would allow the ramjet to kick in. From what I read I believe the Dorniers were only used for ramjet testing, but field expediency and whatnot would certainly make anything possible. As to the ID as a Do 17, I had problems telling whether it was a 17 or a 217 as well, but apparently the jump between planes was made due to the increasing size and power of the Lorin test engines. The link above shows both planes with their ramjets, and the units on the 217 were considerably larger than the one in the posted pic, whereas it matched the website's 17 perfectly. Anyone have an ID on what make of truck that is on the bottom? Oberschutze, were the pics taken from the same source? Either might give a clue. If it's a Ford or whatnot, that would point me in the direction of either the US jet program or the soviets, but I can't tell.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 10:09:44 AM EDT
Truck doesnt look American to me. So hard to tell though without seeing the front grill. I will venture a guess and say the truck is a 1-ton Opel Blitz 2.0-12 based on the shape of the door windows, 2 piece door window design, and overall cab shape.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 10:59:08 AM EDT
I don't have any aircraft ID books available, but the other kickers against the aircraft being a 217 is the stepped cockpit, lack of a airbrake on the tail and the overall shape of the vertical fins. What with all the stupid permutations the Germans insisted on, though, none of this is more than "highly suggestive." Given that the exhaust plume on the lower photo essentially looks like a backfire, and given that there is no evidence of a compressor, either centrifugal or axial, it'd probably have to be a pulse-jet. I have no idea what it is doing on a truck. FWIW, someone had the bright idea of using rockets (!) to blast stuck vehicles out of mud traps. I think it was shortly after WWII. Brohawk, with all due respect, the upper photo is definitely not a pulse jet.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 11:11:48 AM EDT
D'oh! I too was paying so much attention to the jet engine when i got the e-mail with the picture that I never really looked at the aircraft. Good use for a Do 17, it was junk anyway. I think the truck is a Ford but am not ssure, German trucks are not really my thing. I know someone who does know, I will ask them. The rig on the rear of the truck looks to be pretty "field made". It doesn't look like a top grade rocket science project if you get my drift.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 11:33:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 1:04:51 PM EDT by Ustulina]
Hmm.. I think that the flying pencil was probably quite outstanding for its time. A bit like the He 111. Really the Ju88 and me 109 were the only aircraft that soldiered in combat roles from start to end, and I would say that these definitely had their limitations as well. I expect that if you were a pilot in 1939, the Do17 would have inspired confidence, and given the German tendency to over design, over build and over-equip, I bet that the Do-17 was a pleasure to operate. I don't know if any of you have seen that Wings on the He 115 Seaplane, but the level of equipment and flexibility is assininely impressive. Sarco had a vierling rifle for sale a few years ago that had been a Luftwaffe aircrew survival weapon. It was ludicrous. (To clarify-- the idea of having a high grade combination gun that would probably sell new for about $12K today in a fitted case as a crew weapon is nuts, but very cool.) Edit- I was thinking, that truck motor atrocity doesn't look that much worse than Goddard et al's first rocket which looks to me more like a jungle gym than a rocket. Also, the progenitor of JPL rocketry, was known as the CalTech "suicide squad," so I think that early research can often be quite slap dash.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:12:56 PM EDT
I'm going to go with Opel as the truck manufacturer, though the exact model I'll leave to more knowlegable sources. Found a good pic at: [url] http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/o/blitzmam.jpg [/url] Looks similar the one in the above photo, which is a Blitz 2.5-32. The similar points I noticed were the side windows, wheel wells, lights, moulding on doors and body (just under the window), and finally the vents on the front quarterpanels (they're juuuuust visable above). Also, after staring at it long enough, I finally noticed the poor guy in the passenger seat above, arm out of window, probibly hanging on for dear life ;)
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 9:44:08 PM EDT
My friend e-mailed me back. He said it was an Opal Blitz.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 2:48:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ustulina: Brohawk, with all due respect, the upper photo is definitely not a pulse jet.
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No offense taken. I'm always learning.
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