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Posted: 7/3/2003 6:10:19 AM EDT
I know this has been done elsewhere, but I don't want it limited to country, war, or time period. Who do you think were the best in their time? Naval commanders can also be added if you want.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 6:50:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 6:51:17 AM EDT by Brohawk]
I would put Alexander on the list. Pretty impressive accomplishments for a young lad. Patton and MacArthur would be my two choices from US forces in WWII. Patton was a man who loved his soldiers and got things done. MacArthur, either in spite of or because of his ego, thought on a grand scale. On the German side of WWII, I've always liked Rommel, a man who led from the front. Galland gets a vote for tweaking der Dicke's nose. I have to give Giap credit for outlasting the French & US forces in VN. Yamamoto was good in that he 1) Had the foresight to see that war with the US was a mistake, and 2) Came up with a well-executed plan when ordered to. As a side note, he did err when he held back the third wave at Pearl. After reading "Steel My Soldiers' Hearts" I think hack was a great commander with his push to abandon outdated tactics that didn't fit the war. The book was mainly a compilation of the memories of the people who served under him, rather than just his own memoirs. He had his wife interview the men to try and keep things fairly even. Some of these are just opinions, but they're mine and that's what counts. [;)]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:27:49 AM EDT
some others not all ready mentioned 1. Napoleon Bonaparte 2. Frederick the Great 3. Stonewall Jackson 4.Hannibal 5 Genghis Khan 6.Wellington
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:36:34 AM EDT
Sun Tzu because he wrote the book, Art of War - the most definitive tome of military strategy ever known. Julius Caeser, for his conquering of Gaul. Ghengis Khan for his horde army. Hannibal, for his ability to overcome terrain. Napoleon Bonaparte - duh. James Longstreet - Manassas, Sharpsburg, Fredrickburg... If Robert E. Lee had listened to Longstreet, the national anthem would be Dixie.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 10:16:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2003 2:33:30 AM EDT by obershutze916]
I would have to go with, in no particular order....... Alexander Carl Gustav Ghegis Khan Lee Guderian Julias Caesar Wellington (Duke of) Manstein Patton Hauser Oops, forgot the last two!
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:23:22 PM EDT
You guys forgot General Motors, the one who almost single handedly beat the Axis. Heh, heh
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 5:48:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: Napoleon Bonaparte - duh.
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I have to give him bonus points because he was leading a French Army....and didnt surrender! [:D]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 6:30:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2003 3:43:00 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]
No particular order: (1.) Robert E. Lee (confederate Army) - His summer 1864 defensive campaign must be considered a masterpiece. (2.) Erwin Rommel (German Army) - Entire Africa Korp campaign (3.) Erich Von Manstein (German Army) - Invasion of France plan of 1940, capture of Sevastopol, Counterattack at Kharkov, Brilliant defensive campaign as Commander Army Group south 1943/44. (4.) Herman Balck (German Army) - Brilliant defensive campaign of Chir river (spring 1942) as commander of the 11th Panzer Division. (5.) Vo Nguyen Giap( Vietminh+North Vietnamese General) - Dien Bien Phu campaign + campaign against U.S. (6.) Genghis Khan - What more can you say? Conquered most of the world. Out numbered in almost every battle. (7.) Napolean Bonaparte (French Army) - What more can you say? His victory at Austerlitz is considered one of the greatest military victories by any general. Plus he originally did it with a totally FRENCH Army! What more can be said? (8.) Nathan Bedford Forrest (Confederate Army) - Brice Crossroads battle (June 10,1864) is considered a perfect battle for a general. (9.) Tashhunca-Uitco(Crazy Horse) + Tantanka-Iyotanka(Sitting Bull): (Lakota Tribal chiefs) - I'm lumping them together for their Absolute textbook gorilla campaign of 1876 against the U.S. Army and Settlers Militia. (10.) ? - I'm still working on this one. I left out several U.S. generals that have already been mentioned ( I realize I'm going to take some heat for this): (1.) Douglas MacArthur - Sacrificed thousands of U.S. troops to defend the Philippines (1942) mainly due to his Egoism. He was dam near "King" of the Philippines at the time and acted as such. Reportly would not speak to any U.S. Soldier below the rank of colonel. (2.) George Patton - Certainly the best U.S. general of WW2, but only because he was aggressive and would actually move. Problem is most of his victories in France 1944 were against the pitiful German 19th Army. It comprised no more than 75,000 men (mostly 2nd-3rd class troops), 30-50 tanks, zero supplies, zero air cover. Pattons U.S. 3rd Army was 500,000 strong, outnumbered the Germans 20-30 to 1 in tanks, total air supremacy, and at least adequately supplied. Not to mention his reading of German Enigma codes through the ULTRA intercepts. I think my daughter could have won those victories with that opposition and those advantages. (3.) Admiral Yamato (Imperial Japanese Navy) - Although I do consider his Pearl Harbour attack to brilliantly planned and executed. I see three huge mistakes that screw up my opinion of his leadership. (A.)Failure to launch the 3rd wave, (B.) Failure to ensure his primary targets were present before he attacked(U.S. aircraft carriers), (C.) Probably most importantly to actually land troops and occupy the Hawaiian islands.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:20:05 PM EDT
Macarthur deserves to be on the list. His major mistake in the PI was bunching his a/c. He was led to believe a relief was coming. He never would have allowed to Sharp to surrender had Sharp and Wainwright not been snagged away by Marshall. In any case Sharp should have kept fighting too. His later island hopping campaign and the landing at Inchon were masterpieces. many people think he was wasteful of his men. I suggest you compare casualties in his campaigns compared to the Italian Campaign. (Or just Anzio) Montgomery isn't for the list but several of the Brits should be given a close look, Slim and Wyngate come to mind. WWI was a disaster for Generalship. Lawrence fought a brilliant political and Military campaign, but one campaign does not a General make. Grant should be on the list. Not overly subtle but effective. Not only had a good grasp of the needed strategy but was willing to let his subordinates run with the ball when he trusted them. He wanted to move on Mobile after Vicksburg. That would have been a great move. Look at his results - Fts Henry and Donelson, Vicksburg, Chattanooga, started the Atlanta Campaign, and then finally trapped Lee. Cortez?? there are several other Europeans that campaigned in the Catholic/Protestant Wars that likely should be on the list.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:41:09 PM EDT
Regarding Patton. I won't give you heat about your assesment of his later victories. My reason for giving him a nod on the 10 list is what he did before. He was instrumental in nuturing the development of the U.S. Army in WW2. From the desert training to the first nose bleed at the Kasserine Pass the U.S. Army grew up. The invasion of Silicy with U.S. forces under Patton showed that they were equal to the Brits now. Besides, what other General was used as a decoy? Patton may have had a lot of resources avaiable to him in 1944 but you cannot fault him for that. He showed tremendeous leadership qualities which is the main reason I believe he was a top 10 general.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 10:55:39 PM EDT
Spartacus Alexander the fag Napolean Yamamoto Rommel Giapp That's my ten.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 2:32:40 AM EDT
Its interesting to see how many include Rommel. In Germany today, he rates no higher than 7 on any list. I did not add him because he only followed the tactics used by Guderian et al. Besides, he did almost get his ass kicked by the French and had to be bailed out. I think he was a great leader but was only using standard tactics of the day. In one of those what-ifs I would have loved to have him and Patton with opposing armies of same strength square off in the desert. Would have been interesting.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 3:51:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2003 4:00:42 AM EDT by metalstorm]
Originally Posted By obershutze916: Its interesting to see how many include Rommel. In Germany today, he rates no higher than 7 on any list. I did not add him because he only followed the tactics used by Guderian et al. Besides, he did almost get his ass kicked by the French and had to be bailed out. I think he was a great leader but was only using standard tactics of the day. In one of those what-ifs I would have loved to have him and Patton with opposing armies of same strength square off in the desert. Would have been interesting.
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The Germans let a corporal be their supreme commander, so what would they know about leadership, anyway? I have no doubt Rommel would have won any confrontation with Patton if each had the SAME number of tanks to begin with. Remember that Rommel was always being promised replacements which never materialized, and had to make do with what he had. It is interesting that in their desert battles the british always hid their tanks to make appear WEAKER than they were, and the germans always used plywood mockups to appear to be STRONGER than they were. Also bear in mind that we had broken the german Enigma codes, and knew their moves in advance, yet Rommel and co. continued to give us a hard time. Also, he was suffering from jaundice, which affected his ability to make decisions. He was flown in to Berlin for treatment. When he returned to North Africa he had to quickly be placed in the picture, and undo any screwups that had taken place in his absence. Gotta admire him for all his success amid all that adversary. Edit: Forgot to ad that the germans had the most inept ally of the war--Italians! Rommel had several conferences with the Italian command re their incompetence. All they realy did was hinder his operations.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 7:57:53 AM EDT
Although it's been years since I've seen the movie "Patton" I still remember the line, "I read your book, you son of a *%#@&!"
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