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Posted: 2/6/2002 10:52:03 AM EDT
Ok, please fill in my blanks as necessary. Lets say I filled and got an approved form 1, and payed the $200 tax. Now I'm allowed to build my own AR15 in pre-ban form? Lets say I wanted to build a M4 with all the preban goodies, in semi-auto only for my own use, never to sell. Possible? Now the tuff question. Lets say I had someone assembly, by either helping or did the entire assembly for me, like a gunsmith. Where is the thin red line here going to be? I wouldnt be paying him for the gun, just to assemble it. My goal would be to own a customized, top of the line M4 in the pre-ban config. Would be using an 80% reciever, and quality parts and barrel for the rest. Thanks
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 10:58:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 11:02:32 AM EDT by Gloftoe]
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 10:59:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 11:00:55 AM EDT by cmjohnson]
Lucky for you, you're way off. You don't have to submit a form 1. You don't have to pay a 200 dollar tax. You don't have to file ANY paperwork. IF, that is, IF, you are building the rifle in a post-ban legal configuration and it has a 16 inch (or longer) barrel, and there are no laws in your state prohibiting you from doing this. And you are a private citizen, and not a licensed firearms manufacturer. The form 1 and 200 dollar tax apply ONLY to the making of an NFA weapon, which can ONLY be done via a duly licensed title II manufacturer. Believe me on this. Ask around in the 'do it yourself' forum and you'll get the same answer, over and over. However, and this is important: Unless you ARE a title II (class III) manufacturer, you can NOT make a PRE-BAN configured rifle, PERIOD. CJ
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 11:09:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 1:16:03 PM EDT by OMR_RDTandE]
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: The form 1 and 200 dollar tax apply ONLY to the making of an NFA weapon, which can ONLY be done via a duly licensed title II manufacturer. CJ
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Actually, once the making tax is paid and the Tax Stamp is received from the NFA Branch, there is NO involvement required by a title II manufacturer. If a Title II was involved they would first manufacture the weapon, register it with NFA Branch on a Form 2 (no tax paid), then transfer to you once tax was paid and approved on a Form 4. In either case, the weapon must comply with the '94 AW Ban unless it was an AOW. HTH.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:11:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 6:26:05 PM EDT by SBR7_11]
Originally Posted By TheProfessional: Ok, please fill in my blanks as necessary. Lets say I filled and got an approved form 1, and payed the $200 tax. Now I'm allowed to build my own AR15 in pre-ban form?
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You do not need to pay tax and Form-1 to make a Title-1 firearm. If building a SBR (Title-2/NFA), then you indeed need an approved Form-1. You are not required to pay excise tax-registration on a completed rifle for "personal consumption" (been there-done that) until you sell it, that is why ATF did not know about the original status of my lower's existance until I did a Form-1 to SBR it. I won.
Lets say I wanted to build a M4 with all the preban goodies, in semi-auto only for my own use, never to sell. Possible?
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Yes, only if lower is a true "Pre-Ban" in order to have the "EVIL" features. "Post-Ban" lower has to meet Post-Ban criteria with finished rifle. Refer to previous answer in regards to wether the rifle will be Title-1 or Title-2.
Now the tuff question. Lets say I had someone assembly, by either helping or did the entire assembly for me, like a gunsmith. Where is the thin red line here going to be? I wouldnt be paying him for the gun, just to assemble it.
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Why??, to assemble a regular rifle or SBR an AR-15 it's a piece of cake.
My goal would be to own a customized, top of the line M4 in the pre-ban config. Would be using an 80% reciever, and quality parts and barrel for the rest.
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Your statement here says you are building a "Post-Ban" rifle, thus,,, NO "pre-Ban" features allowed, not my fault, some dumba** ATF Dragged the AW CRAP into NFA if you are indeed going GI spec 14.5".
Thanks
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You are welcome.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 1:12:03 AM EDT
So is it possible to get my post-ban Bushy lower registered under Form 1 as a SBR, pay $200 and be able to put a preban upper on it? Is there any way I could get a preban status rifle without paying $1600-$2000 for a preban NIB Colt, or being a LEO. My two reasons I am all about preban... 1) Telescoping stock. 2) Threaded barrels. My current project is decking out my 16" Bushmaster with ALL the goodies. Trijicon ACOG, C-More FF Quadrail, Harris bipod, you name it. And if I could have those 2 "evil" features, it would make a perfect rifle. Are they worth $1000 to me, no. $200 yes. Thanks
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 5:03:03 AM EDT
NO, you are still missing the point.. I stated that some DUMBA#S dragged the AW CRAP into NFA. Because you are still building a new "SEMI-AUTO" rifle after 9/94, ALL the AW CRAP applies. In simple terms;;; Original "Pre-Ban" lower = Pre-Ban or Post-ban features Original "Post-Ban" lower = Post-Ban features ONLY------NOT my fault......
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:58:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SBR7_11: NO, you are still missing the point.. I stated that some DUMBA#S dragged the AW CRAP into NFA. Because you are still building a new "SEMI-AUTO" rifle after 9/94, ALL the AW CRAP applies.
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In a warped way it does kind of make sense. Any NFA weapon that falls into another category, that is more restrictive, must also adhere to those more restrictive standards. BATF could have just as easily decided, with more rational logic, that the AW Ban didn't apply to NFA weapons since they were already taxed and regulated. As I understand it the AW Ban applies to Short Barreled Rifles (SBR)and Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS), but not to Any Other Weapons (AOW), Machine Guns (MG), Silencers, or Destructive Devices (DD). It also applies to all large capacity magazines, even if originally only designed for MG's or DD's.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:59:06 AM EDT
To extend on the subject, let me put it this way: Even if you register your post-ban lower as an SBR, it STILL has to comply with the AW ban! The ONLY legal way to put the 'evil features' on the rifle is to install a registered drop-in autosear or a registered lightning link, and of course file all the necessary paperwork to make this legal. Once it's a machinegun, you can configure it any way you like...but when the RDIAS or RLL comes out, the evil features have to come off the rifle. Yes, it sucks. It's beyond stupid. It's something that only a gun-grabbing politician (a bunch of them) could have come up with. But that's the way it is, for now. CJ
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:33:50 PM EDT
And to top is all off this guy lists Iowa as state of residence. Iowa classifies all NFA firearms as offensive weapons and does not let citizens own them. Iowa is a no NFA state.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 8:54:00 PM EDT
Well crapola, I guess I'll just have to settle wth a fixed stock, and a permanent brake. :( Yup, I do live in good'ol Iowa. Here they wont even issue concealed carry permits without a really good reason. My dad is a private pilot for a rather wealthy man, and he couldnt get a CC permit for his and his boss's protection. I guess I'll wait unit the ban sunsets. And its up US to make sure it settles for GOOD. Thanks for clearing it all up.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 10:43:53 PM EDT
Actually it's totally up to the personal whim of your local sheriff. Some won't issue without an act of congress, some counties issue to anyone who asks. Luckly being a non resident my permit was issued by the state and not by the local sheriff.
Link Posted: 2/12/2002 9:11:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: The form 1 and 200 dollar tax apply ONLY to the making of an NFA weapon, which can ONLY be done via a duly licensed title II manufacturer.
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Almost true. It is true for a machine gun, but not true for NFA items like a suppressor, SBR, AOW, etc. Example: You can make a suppressor but, first need to fill out a form 1 and pay the $200 and NOT have any license. Same for SBR. The AOW is a wierd one. A non-licensed person must pay $200 to make an AOW themselves. They can have a title II make one and then transfer it to them for $5 and not have to pay the $200... mark
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 3:52:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: The form 1 and 200 dollar tax apply ONLY to the making of an NFA weapon, which can ONLY be done via a duly licensed title II manufacturer.
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That's wrong. You don't have to be a Title II manufacturer. As long as your state allows SBRs, and so long as you qualify (record-wise), anyone can submit a Form 1- just follow the directions, all of them. I have done two successfully.
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