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Posted: 1/14/2002 6:46:25 PM EDT
I recently purchased a Norinco short barrel(para) from a local Pawn Shop and it had a Ram Line folder attached. I am wondering If it legal for me to posess this gun in its current configuration. One person told me any SKS that still has the bayo lugs is considered legal for a folder but another guy said there are no (pre-ban) Chinese because they came over after '89 therefore none on the Chinese ane legal with a folder, still another guy told my that SKS's were never built originally with folders so they are not legal in that config, and yet another guy (C&R collector/dealer) said that it was not legal for him to install the folder and sell it but was unsure of whether or not an individual could legally perform the mod!
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 7:07:29 PM EDT
[url]www.simonov.net[/url] everything ive read on sks and on that site pretty much says nope cant do it unless the gun was in that config pre 89. and from what i c theres alot of people that can are going to be burned if they start caring some day.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 12:57:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 1:22:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: Here's the rule: Do you have proof (evidence that can be legally submitted in court, and would hold up) that the SKS in question was [b]imported[/b] into the US before 1990? If no, then the gun must comply with the feature limitations of 922(r), meaning no "military features." If yes, then do you have proof that the gun was in AW configuration before Sept 13, 1994? If yes, then you can install the folding pistol-grip stock. If no, then the gun must comply with the 1994 Assault Weapons ban regarding features. -Troy
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it was my understanding that any rifle couldn't have more than two "evil features". the sks doesn't come with any, so the addition of a pistol grip shouldn't be a problem. even if you have the detachable mag AND the folder i wouldn't think you were in violation.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 9:02:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ian187: it was my understanding that any rifle couldn't have more than two "evil features". the sks doesn't come with any, so the addition of a pistol grip shouldn't be a problem. even if you have the detachable mag AND the folder i wouldn't think you were in violation.
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Your understanding is incorrect. It's the detachable mag and ONE feature. No detachable mag (like an original SKS) and it can have any features it wants under the 94 AW ban. With the imported SKS, however, there are other regulations in effect, and certain features like bayonets are not allowed while it's an all-imported gun. An SKS with enough US parts can be configured with a folding stock and flash suppressor and bayonet lug and pistol grip, if you like.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 7:35:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Circuits:
Originally Posted By ian187: it was my understanding that any rifle couldn't have more than two "evil features". the sks doesn't come with any, so the addition of a pistol grip shouldn't be a problem. even if you have the detachable mag AND the folder i wouldn't think you were in violation.
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Your understanding is incorrect. It's the detachable mag and ONE feature. No detachable mag (like an original SKS) and it can have any features it wants under the 94 AW ban. With the imported SKS, however, there are other regulations in effect, and certain features like bayonets are not allowed while it's an all-imported gun. An SKS with enough US parts can be configured with a folding stock and flash suppressor and bayonet lug and pistol grip, if you like.
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if that is the case, does the pistol grip folding stock count as two? if it doesn't then i stand behind my previous statement.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 8:27:51 AM EDT
A pistol grip counts as one feature. A folding/collapsing stock counts as one feature. A detachable magazine is not a feature - it's a requirement for the firearm to even be considered under the legislation. The law does not read "more than two features" - it reads "a semi-auto with the ability to accept a detachable magazine and more than one feature". Heck, I'll post it for you below:
§ 921(a)(30) The term 'semiautomatic assault weapon' means: ... (B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - (i) a folding or telescopic stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a bayonet mount; (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (v) a grenade launcher;
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The key is that without the ability to accept a detachable magazine, a semi-automatic rifle is NOT covered by the AW ban legislation. If you take an AR-15 and weld or otherwise fix the magazine, you can stick a telestock on it, and an upper with flash suppressor and bayonet lug with no legal problems - it cannot be considered a semi-automatic assault weapon. For the SKS or any other imported rifle, it cannot have 'nonsporting' features if it was imported after the 1990 cutoff date for the Bush 89 nonsporting import ban. That's why SKS's have been coming in neutered. If you put enough US parts in an SKS that it's no longer considered 'imported' under the law, then you can put a folding stock with pistol grip on it, as long as it's got the non-detchable magazine.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 4:12:22 PM EDT
I agree 100% with Circuits. I'll add also that since the SKS never had a folding stock in it's military life adding one now can not alter it into a non sporting weapon in my opinion. It can be argued a hundred ways but this seems to be a very strong point to me. Again with a non detachable magazine that is.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 4:53:55 PM EDT
Here is the correct info: 1) It can be in that configuration, if it was like that before 1990. 2) It can have any features you want as long as it uses less than 10 foreign parts. And, yes this is doable. There is now a US Trigger Assembly. That and a US Stock should be sufficient. 3) It is not illegal for you to possess. As much as people believe it it is not true. it is only illegal to manufacture and I assume is probably subject to confiscation. 4) It can be registered under the NFA and have as many foreign parts as you damn well please.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 4:56:25 PM EDT
In reference to the 94 Ban (922(v)) as long as it has a fixed magazine, it can have any evil feature you wish. If you wish to use Detachable Mags. then you need to either use a standard style stock or fix the folder and remove the bayonet lug.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 4:58:39 PM EDT
18 USC 44 Sec. 922(r) -- (r) It shall be unlawful for any person [red]to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation[/red] under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to - (1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or (2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 5:01:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2002 5:10:44 PM EDT by cc48510]
18 USC 44 Sec. 925(d) -- (d) The Secretary shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof if the firearm or ammunition - (1) is being imported or brought in for scientific or research purposes, or is for use in connection with competition or [red]training pursuant to chapter 401 of title 10;[/red] (2) is an unserviceable firearm, other than a machinegun as defined in section 5845(b) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (not readily restorable to firing condition), imported or brought in as a curio or museum piece; (3) is of a type that does not fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms, except in any case where the Secretary has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled; or (4) was previously taken out of the United States or a possession by the person who is bringing in the firearm or ammunition. The Secretary shall permit the conditional importation or bringing in of a firearm or ammunition for examination and testing in connection with the making of a determination as to whether the importation or bringing in of such firearm or ammunition will be allowed under this subsection.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 5:05:39 PM EDT
You could claim 925(d)(1) since 10 USC 401 Sec. 4309 allows civilians to use Military Rifle Ranges for shoting practice. I would check into it though.
Sec. 4309. - Rifle ranges: availability for use by members and civilians (a) Ranges Available. - All rifle ranges constructed in whole or in part with funds provided by the United States may be used by members of the armed forces and by persons capable of bearing arms. (b) Military Ranges. - (1) In the case of a rifle range referred to in subsection (a) that is located on a military installation, the Secretary concerned may establish reasonable fees for the use by civilians of that rifle range to cover the material and supply costs incurred by the armed forces to make that rifle range available to civilians. (2) Fees collected pursuant to paragraph (1) in connection with the use of a rifle range shall be credited to the appropriation available for the operation and maintenance of that rifle range and shall be available for the operation and maintenance of that rifle range. (3) Use of a rifle range referred to in paragraph (1) by civilians may not interfere with the use of the range by members of the armed forces. (c) Regulations. - Regulations to carry out this section with respect to a rifle range shall be prescribed, subject to the approval of the Secretary concerned, by the authorities controlling the rifle range.
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