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Posted: 11/20/2001 8:01:35 AM EDT
My dad and I were having a dicussion of firearms shipments the other day. He states that shipment of a firearm through the mail (UPS, USPS, etc.) other than to the manufacturer or a gunsmith is illegal. Is it legal to ship a firearm across state lines using the mail if the tranaction occurs between two private parties? TIA, - Snacko
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 8:13:03 AM EDT
You would be required to have an FFL handle the transfer. Typically, the buyer would pay the other party, have his gun shop (FFL holder) forward thier credentials to the seller's gun shop (FFL), and the seller's shop would transfer the firearm to the buyer's shop. The buyer would go to his gunshop, pay the transfer fee, fill out the BATF forms and get the NICS check, and receive the firearm.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 8:19:30 AM EDT
So what he is saying is that it has to be shipped dealer to dealer.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 8:44:26 AM EDT
Thanks for the info. Does that mean under circumstances like these (private transfers) where FFL holders have to get involved, are the FFL transfer fees paid twice - once to the shipping FFL holder and once to the receiving FFL holder? I also guess based on the receiver's state, a background check is also conducted? What about in-state private transfers, where the mail system isn't involved (I go to his house and pick it up). Thanks, - Snacko
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 8:50:32 AM EDT
You can ship your firearm to a repair/custom shop or back to the maunfacturer without having to go thru a FFL. They are allowed to ship it back directly to you. The above advise of going thru a FFL is for purchase out of state, and no the seller does not have to go thru his FFL only the purchaser does. Mike
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 9:10:24 AM EDT
Hi Mike - when you say "the seller does not have to go thru his FFL only the purchaser does", are you saying that the seller's FFL does not accept any fee for their part in this transaction? Do they only act as a point of contact for the receiver's FFL when dropping off the firearm that checks the receiver's FFL paperwork? In this business, that seems a little gracious of them ;-) - Snacko
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 9:25:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2001 9:28:45 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
I could be wrong here, but in my dealings w/ Guns America.com, when I sold a rifle I was required to ship it to the FFL dealer of the receiving purchaser and I got that address and copy of his FFL from the purchaser. I did not go thru my FFL dealer to sell it, I only dealt w/ him when I was the purchaser, he charges me (depending on the value of what I'm puchasing) to receive it, put it on his books then transfer it to me. Mike
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 9:35:57 AM EDT
Snacko: Check'd the terms again and yes I was right [b]as long as we're talking rifles[/b]. For [b]pistols[/b] all transactions, both seller and receiver must go through a dealer. So if I'm going to sell a pistol I [b]will[/b] have to go through my FFL to ship it [b]as long as I'm shipping out of state[/b]. If I'm selling to someone in Texas I can ship the pistol through the purchaser's FFL without having to deal w/ my FFL. Hope this makes things about "as clear as mud", notice I said Texas as I am not familiar w/ all laws in other states, and what is legal in Texas may not be legal where u are. Mike
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 9:36:40 AM EDT
I recently sent a long gun firearm to a relative via UPS. I have no FFL. However, I was required to send it to a FFL for it to be picked up by my relative, who had to have a rifle permit.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 9:37:46 AM EDT
If you don't use an FFL to send than Who checks the FFL license number to make sure he is even a real FFL? I could just tell you I am an FFL and to go ahead and send it.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 9:40:30 AM EDT
Snacko. When doing in state sales and the mail is not involved (just going to the sellers house) no FFL will need to be involved.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 9:47:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2001 9:40:29 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
[b]Brasseater[/b] You wouldn't get it until u faxed or otherwise sent me a copy of your FFL license. Most sites like Guns America.com have rules and I try to follow the rules. Besides as recent threads here have shown ([b]Ripped off[/b]) I will generally know what u had for breakfast before I'll deal w/ you privately. While generally a trusting person, I'm not gonna get taken and you won't see me whinning here for getting taken in gun deals out of state. When I get your FFL copy the first thing I do is check the validity of it.....nuff said. Mike
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 10:37:35 AM EDT
Any firearm can be sent directly to an FFL holder by a nonlicensee. An FFL to FFL transfer is never required by federal law. Also receipt of the receiving dealer's FFL is not required for a nonlicensee, although it is nice to have. You can verify an FFL on the BATF web site if you have the first 3 and last 5 digits of his license number. There are a few instances where shipment to a nonlicensee is allowed. Two that I can think of offhand are the return of a firearm from a gunsmith to the owner and shipment of a firearm to yourself in care of another person to hold for you. As with all firearms laws, state and local laws can change things.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 3:13:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 10:55:42 AM EDT
I know the seller does not need a ffl to ship a rifle to a ffl holder out of state, but where in the books does it say this? I need to prove it to a old ffl holder who is pissed my preban ak came with out a ffl in the box!
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 11:13:13 AM EDT
Have your old FFL look in the Q&A section of his FAQ. An FFL holder can receive a firearm from anyone, anywhere in the US. Many dealers wrongly believe it can only come to them from another dealer, while some know it's not required, but choose only to receive from another FFL. From the ATF "Q&A"
(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 178.29]
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Link Posted: 11/23/2001 11:26:47 AM EDT
I know I just found it [img]http://www.ak-47.net/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=186383[/img]
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