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Posted: 3/1/2001 9:17:51 AM EDT
Ok, I'm curious as to how, if it's possible, you would legally build a short barreled rifle.. Can I just buy a stripped lower, send in the permit to manufacture a firearm form and the $200 tax and build away? Is it even legal to build a short barreled rifle out of all post-ban (new) parts? I appreciate any info you can give me. BTW, I live in Oregon, so it is at least legal to own SBRs here Thanks! David
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 9:31:45 AM EDT
Get a Form 1 from ATF (entitled "APPLICATION TO MAKE AND REGISTER A FIREARM") and follow the directions carefully. You'll need the approval of your cheif LEO, "Head of the State Police . . . a State or local district attorney or prosecutor . . . Sherriff etc". Must do a background check, get the FBI fingerprint cards filled out and pay the $200.00. You can order the form straight from BATF and it will get to you via mail in a couple of days. The application has good instructions so just follow them. If you buy your short-barreled upper before approval, keep it away, I mean AWAY, from your lower. Good luck!
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 9:36:10 AM EDT
That's about it, although you leave out the Sheriff's signature, fingerprints, and photos which must be submitted and the 3-4 month average wait for the Form 1 (application to make) to be processed and returned. You, as the manufacturer must permanently mark the lower you're registering as an SBR with your name and location. If you build an SBR out of a post-ban lower, you still can't have a threaded muzzle for a flash hider, a flash hider, bayonet lug or telestock, if it's got a removable magazine and you keep the pistol grip.
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 9:36:51 AM EDT
Thanks for the info Steve! One other question (that might seem rather stupid..).. does the "AW" ban crap apply to a registered SBR? IE: will i be able to have a flash surpressor/bayonet lug/collapsable stock/etc on my SBR?
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 9:38:30 AM EDT
Circuits, Thanks, you answered my question before i was able to post it LOL Appreciate the valuable information guys! David
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 3:10:51 PM EDT
Is the $200.00 considered a tax and is it assessed yearly or one time fee.
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 4:09:25 PM EDT
Eyes, it's a one time tax.
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 5:41:45 PM EDT
Thanks CIB AIRBORNE!
Link Posted: 3/2/2001 10:55:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2001 11:13:32 AM EDT by RSeacord]
hmmmh . . . I was under the impression that you could have the "unconstitutionally restricted" parts on SBR and NFA firearms. . . . now, where did i hear that . . [:\][>:][:(!][:(][:|][8)] don't know
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 6:54:03 PM EDT
You can only have the evil bay lug, threaded barrel etc If the lower is prefban. [heavy]
Link Posted: 3/4/2001 11:14:49 PM EDT
If you have a machine gun you can have all the evil features you want. So you could take a brand new (postban) ABCO AR15 and install a registered lighting link or registered sear, call it a machine gun and hang all the neat stuff on it. Once you remove the registered part then it must become a legal post ban AR15 again. If you have a registered SBR it still falls under the pre/post ban rules. Which is a bunch of pre and post ban BS anyways. GEF
Link Posted: 3/6/2001 8:20:52 AM EDT
It is interesting to note the language used regarding SBR in federal and state laws. In my home state(Colorado), the law reads "a rifle with a barrel under 16 inches AND an overall length under 26 inches". NFA wording is as follows"The term 'short-barreled rifle' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle(whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches". My understanding is that federal laws supercede state laws but I could be wrong about that. The way CO law reads, one would interpret that both factors must exsist(the short barrel AND AOL).
Link Posted: 3/6/2001 10:16:56 AM EDT
I didn't think you could take a preban or new postban receiver and make a machine gun out of it because of the ban on the manufacture of machine guns in '96? No flame intended. Just a question. Lynn
Link Posted: 3/6/2001 10:32:12 AM EDT
In order to be legal you must always be in compliance with federal law. In this case a rifle must have a barrel length of 16" and an overall length of 26". States can pass more restrictive legislation and could define a SBR as anything they want to. I doubt that CO defines a SBR as having a barrel less then 16" and an overall length of less then 26". That wouldn't make any sense since under federal law it's a SBR.
Link Posted: 3/6/2001 10:32:48 AM EDT
You must comply with all provisions of both State and Federal law. If one is stricter than the other, you are bound by the stricter law, but if the weaker law has a provision not included in the stronger law, you must ensure that you comply with that provision, too.
Link Posted: 3/6/2001 10:36:55 AM EDT
BigD: That's because a registered DIAS is the "machine gun". Once it's installed in a receiver it is an NFA MG and not a SAW.
Link Posted: 3/7/2001 4:48:55 PM EDT
How about having a postban receiver registered as a AOW. I have seen a thread on this board where a C2 manufacturer will register a Post ban lower as an AOW and then you can build a AR15 pistol out of it, with all the evil features you want. Awhile back OLY was selling a OA-93 pistol AOW, that was made after the ban, and did not comply with the SAW provisions. It weighed over 50 oz and had all the evil features on it, including a forward handgrip that made it an AOW. This seems to be the best possible loophole there is for making a new post ban receiver into a Firearm with all the features you want, and the transfer tax is only 5 dollars.
Link Posted: 3/7/2001 6:54:10 PM EDT
seems like a lot of extra redtape and crap to go thru just to get preban features plus you would have to get you prints,pictures, on file with the goverment just to own a preban style gun. doesnt seem liek its worth the hassle know if it aws a mg then id do it.
Link Posted: 3/9/2001 2:16:58 AM EDT
So if you have a pre-ban lower with a NON-fixed telescoping stock, and the minimum length for an SBR is 26 inches, do they count the stock fully extended or collapsed?
Link Posted: 3/9/2001 8:18:29 AM EDT
I do not think there is any length applicable to SBR, only that shoulder fired arm has barrel shorter than 16"..My UZI is marked 17"/25" in the length box, no problem there, thats with 10" barrel and folding stock, just do a Form 1 yourself and move on. Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/9/2001 5:07:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2001 12:29:01 AM EDT
I'm pretty sure OAL is measured with the stock in its fully extended position, unless it is a 'detachable'. TANSTAAFL
Link Posted: 3/12/2001 8:16:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2001 9:03:17 PM EDT by Gothamer]
I called the ATF last week on this very subject. If you build a rifle the manufacture date is the day you assemble the rifle therefore you MUST assemble it in POST-BAN configuration ONLY, PERIOD. Even if the rec'r was a pre-ban you are "building" a different rifle so it is now a post-ban weapon. Just call and see 202-927-8330. The only way to avoid this is to purchase a registered M-16 according to guy at ATF. You may disassemble a pre-ban and reassemble it the fashion it existed before Sept 14, 1994. If you change something you "built" a rifle forcing you to conform to post-ban requirements. Call the number and big brother will set you straight. Overall length is measured in shortest possible length i.e. stock collapsed or folded and threaded muzzle attachments removed. P.S. you can download the application to build from the ATF website
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 3:20:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gothamer: I called the ATF last week on this very subject. If you build a rifle the manufacture date is the day you assemble the rifle therefore you MUST assemble it in POST-BAN configuration ONLY, PERIOD. Even if the rec'r was a pre-ban you are "building" a different rifle so it is now a post-ban weapon. Just call and see 202-927-8330. The only way to avoid this is to purchase a registered M-16 according to guy at ATF. You may disassemble a pre-ban and reassemble it the fashion it existed before Sept 14, 1994. If you change something you "built" a rifle forcing you to conform to post-ban requirements. Call the number and big brother will set you straight. Overall length is measured in shortest possible length i.e. stock collapsed or folded and threaded muzzle attachments removed. P.S. you can download the application to build from the ATF website
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This is WRONG. See my reply to Cardude's thread.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 4:49:09 PM EDT
As Steve has indicated this is WRONG. The installation a RDIAS into any AR-15 converts the rifle to a MG and is subject to the rules of the NFA. It is no longer subject to the rules and regulations of the '94 Crime bill. It's NOT a SAW so it's neither pre or post ban. [url]www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter1.txt[/url]
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