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Posted: 3/23/2006 3:07:30 PM EDT
Does anyone know if these are legal to carry in VA?
I know it's illegeal to carry a "spring stick" but what I'm looking at the ASP batons and these are not spring loaded.

I don't want to buy one and then get busted over this, even when it's fine for me to carry a conceled handgun
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 10:12:05 AM EDT
Well if no one knows there answer, any idea where I can get an answer?
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:57:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 7:58:42 AM EDT by brickeyee]
You are going to have to look at the Court Reporter (printed record of cases heard). A review of a Va code summary giving 'duties of the state' to obtaina conviction might helo also.
One of the problems is that lower level courts are not necassarily court of record and cases in a local area may have been tried without reporting. While these decisions are not binding on other judges (even in the same circuit) individual judges tend to be rather consistent people.
A talk with the local Commonwealth's Attorney will reveal at least their attitude, but beware as an elected office they have political baggage.
An hour with a friendly attorney will often get the local flavor also.

It may be considered 'close enough' to a spring stick to be ruled that way.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:46:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 5:51:08 PM EDT by DragoMuseveni]
Man, why does this crap have to be so complicated?

I gotta find me a state that will let law biding citizens carry practically anything they want for personal protection. That way no gray areas like this.

Would it be better to contact a lawyer about this question or the local DA? I don't want to really want to have to pay someone for this "simple" question.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 8:56:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 9:13:12 AM EDT by brickeyee]
The quality of the answer will likely vary directly with the cost.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:53:29 AM EDT
§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.
A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack, …[nun chucks, throwing stars] …or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor[.]

N. As used in this article:
"Spring stick" means a spring-loaded metal stick activated by pushing a button which rapidly and forcefully telescopes the weapon to several times its original length.

Note that pepper sprays, ASP-style batons, tasers, etc are not listed, nor are they "of like kind" to anything listed, but the surest way to determine an items legality is to call your local assistant commonwealth attorneys' office for your county.
Most likely if you contacted a VA attorney re this question, that is what they'd do anyhow.

Cheers, Otto
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:45:23 PM EDT
I just sent a email to my local CA's office regarding this issue. I will post the response once I get it.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:48:53 AM EDT
Well I got my response:

Thank you for your inquiry. The Virginia Code section you cited is the correct one regarding concealed weapons. While the code does not specifically mention the manual telescoping baton, or "asp" baton, it is my opinion based on my research that it would indeed be considered a concealed weapon under section 18.2-308. As you correctly pointed out,the code does define a "spring stick", which is a "spring-loaded metal stick activated by pushing a button which rapidly and forcefully telescopes the weapon to
several times its original length." While the "asp" baton is not
spring-loaded, the code contains a provision for "any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection." The only discernible difference, then, between the telescoping baton and the spring stick would seem to be the mechanism by which the baton would telescope. Looking at the case law, the Virginia courts have held that this "catch-all" provision is not
overbroad. Another interesting note in the case law applies to the
section of the code that states "a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature." By its construction, the telescoping baton, clearly would be considered "of such deceptive appearance as to disguise (it's) true nature." The Virginia courts have also addressed this portion of the statute and affirmed cases based on this
provision. The Supreme Court of Virginia has further said that "the
purpose of the statute (18.2-308) was to interdict the practice of carrying a deadly weapon about the person, concealed, and yet accessible as to
afford prompt and immediate use." Based on all of the above reasoning,
it is my opinion that the telescoping baton would be considered a concealed weapon under section 18.2-308.


Why can't I get a straight answer?

But it appears these are not legal to carry because they are of like type to a sping stick.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:09:08 AM EDT
You just got a straight answer from the person liable to prosecute you.
He is telling you he will prosecute under 18.2-308.
You can go ahead and carry, but be prepared to spend $$ on your own attorney.
The first time you get caught it is only a misdemenaor.
The second time is a felony.
Feeling lucky?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:27:24 PM EDT
After I got that response I replied asking if a CHP would change anything regarding that section of the code:

The matter of concealed weapons permits is controlled by the City Code in each jurisdiction. In Virginia Beach, the applicable City Code section is 38-1. It mirrors the State Code for the most part, as far as definitions and such, but there is a section (b) which states that section (a) (which deals with the range of weapons we discussed
before) doesn't apply if one has a concealed weapons permit. In my opinion, one could conceivably get a concealed weapons permit for an ASP baton under the city code, although I've never heard of someone applying
for a permit for anything other than a hangun. A better resource might be
the City Attorney's office or the Circuit Court Clerk's office, since they process these applications and the judges approve them.


I will be applying for my CHP within the next few week and while I'm at the court house i'll check with the Circuit Court Clerk's office further but based on the City Code they are legal in my home town if I have a permit.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:39:46 PM EDT
"The matter of concealed weapons permits is controlled by the City Code in each jurisdiction. "

Now the guy is blowing smoke. The statr pre-emption legislation removed the ability of any jurisdiction excpet the state to imposse any rules on CHP. All the local rules died at the same time.
You might ask him how he squares the new law with the no longer valid laws in the city (county, or any other jurisdiction in VA).

Thank you Dillon Rule.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:14:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
"The matter of concealed weapons permits is controlled by the City Code in each jurisdiction. "

Now the guy is blowing smoke. The statr pre-emption legislation removed the ability of any jurisdiction excpet the state to imposse any rules on CHP. All the local rules died at the same time.
You might ask him how he squares the new law with the no longer valid laws in the city (county, or any other jurisdiction in VA).

Thank you Dillon Rule.



Well I notice that VaBeach is the only see with that pervision B which makes section A not apply to thoes with a CHP(well switch knifes and blackjackts are still illegal under another law)
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