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Posted: 12/18/2005 8:27:35 AM EDT
In NC, one cannot legally CCW in a "financial institution". It occured to me that the ATM kiosk or island could be considered a financial institution by law. Anyone know any case law that can be used as guidance in that scenario? If one were to need a CCW weapon, that seems a likley place. I'd like to know the potential legal implications.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 12:57:06 PM EDT
Good question! Maybe to refine it a bit, what if the ATM is not located on bank property? I.e. one of those set up in a parking lot or building face?

I betcha this is one area that does not have any legal precedent.

But I do CCW in my vehicle in the bank drive-thru (both human teller and ATM); I figure that while I'm in my vehicle I can't be "inside a financial institution".
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:42:30 AM EDT
FredMan,

I'm on your side here, but a D.A. with some venom against gun owners might feel differently. He/she might even use the following approach:

"So, your defense is that when you're in your vehicle, you can't possibly be 'inside a financial institution,' is that correct?"

"Yes, sir, that's correct."

"Well, sir, if I were intent on robbing a bank, and were to drive my vehicle through the front window into the lobby, all the way up to the teller's window, would you say that I was 'inside a financial institution'?

It doesn't make it right; I was just cautioning against relying exclusively on the "vehicle != bank" defense. I'd still try to find out what your state's laws say, and see if there've been any rulings to establish case law.

Stay safe.

Jake.

P.S. Slacker, we've got a mall here which has a small building in the parking lot which houses an ATM. At least two people have been robbed there in the last eight years that I know of. There is also a drive-thru ATM about 20 blocks away. A few years ago, two cousins shotgunned a young college student there and used his card (which was still in the machine) to clean out his account.

Even though these instances did not occur in what one would call "bad parts of town," those types of places are not "safe" by any stretch of the imagination. It's what I call the "African watering hole" effect (I watch a lot of Discovery Channel). If there is not an exemption/exception built into the law, contact one of the CCW advocacy groups in your state. They will have a better idea whether it would be better to lobby for it or to keep quiet about it.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:50:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wise_jake:

"So, your defense is that when you're in your vehicle, you can't possibly be 'inside a financial institution,' is that correct?"

"Yes, sir, that's correct."

"Well, sir, if I were intent on robbing a bank, and were to drive my vehicle through the front window into the lobby, all the way up to the teller's window, would you say that I was 'inside a financial institution'?




Good point, Jake. My reply (in pretty smartass tone) would be "Well, sir, I wasn't intent on robbing the bank, matter of fact I was giving the bank my money for safekeeping. And you will note that I didn't drive my vehicle into the lobby. Catch me making a drive-though out of the teller counter and then we'll have this discussion. Dumbass."

Actually, I'd probably leave that last "dumbass" off.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:42:11 AM EDT
Ah hell...... depending on the judge [and/or jury], you might leave it on and score a few points.

My point was just cautionary re: dangerous/overzealous prosecutors. For example, TX just passed and had become law what appears to be a major strengthening of our carry laws. However, the DA in Houston (IIRC) has publicly stated he WILL prosecute anyone employing the new exemption in their defense. Whether it's because he wants to quickly establish positive or negative case law in this area remains to be seen.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:20:43 PM EDT
Remember, CCW laws are state laws so the correct answer in one state may be wrong in another. The last time I checked Az allowed carry in banks...open or concealed.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 2:06:53 PM EDT
My read on this...

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14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.

(c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in the areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, and 14‑277.2, in an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120‑32.1, in any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law, in a law enforcement or correctional facility, in a building housing only State or federal offices, in an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government, a financial institution, or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.
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I noticed that with the exception of 'financial institution' every thing else is qualified with 'in'.

So... one might infer a continuation of that flow: [in] a financial institution.

But... I ain't paying the fine, or doing the time.
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