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Posted: 12/12/2005 7:16:53 AM EDT
My father-in-law just gave me his gun collection.

Is it legal for me to drive up there, put them in the trunk and drive home?

Or must I have them shipped to an FFL in PA?

When I buy from out of state, I know I must do this (ship to an FFL). But if it is a gift from a family member, does it make any difference?

I want to do everthing legal, but do not wish to pay transfer fees/shipping if there is no need.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:39:08 PM EDT
Fed Law allows ONLY inheritance interstate transfers without an FFL. Therefore it is a felony to do an interstate transfer between any two (even related) parties for any guns.

In most cases (NOT MA) you would be able to drive up here, go with your Father-in-law to a local dealer and do the transfers.

HOWEVER, MA passed a law some time ago which PROHIBITS any NR from buying/transferring (taking possession) of a gun or ammo in MA!

So, that won't work either.

I wish the news was better for you.

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:03:47 PM EDT
Sounds like you father-in-law needs to drive down to PA for Christmas and give you your presents.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:56:50 PM EDT
FWIW (possibly nothing) the benefactor IS STILL among the living, so inheritance laws (if seperate from others) should not apply.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:41:29 PM EDT
If you are standing in front of him he can give them to you. Then they belong to you.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:44:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Oslow:
If you are standing in front of him he can give them to you. Then they belong to you.



Then you grab your ankles. Then you become bubba's bitch.

who would know the better? probably no one. But be advised, doing so is illegal.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:58:37 PM EDT
Thanks for all the informative (and entertaining) replies!

Would it be legal for him to drive them down to me? If he did that , we would still have to do a transfer at a PA FFL right?

Thanks again.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:32:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By montana_jeepn:
Thanks for all the informative (and entertaining) replies!

Would it be legal for him to drive them down to me? If he did that , we would still have to do a transfer at a PA FFL right?

Thanks again.




Yes, it would be legal. That is the best way to do this (PA FFL).
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:58:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 11:59:07 AM EDT by Accountant30339]

Originally Posted By LenS:

Originally Posted By montana_jeepn:
Thanks for all the informative (and entertaining) replies!

Would it be legal for him to drive them down to me? If he did that , we would still have to do a transfer at a PA FFL right?

Thanks again.




Yes, it would be legal. That is the best way to do this (PA FFL).





Now....I am not a lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

If he drove down to PA and gave them to you in your living room.........why would you go to the trouble and expense of going to an FFL?? Does PA have a gun registration law that I am unaware of?......if there is no law requiring registration.......why oh why, would you put them on a 4473???

Accountant
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:31:41 PM EDT
"...if there is no law requiring registration.......why oh why, would you put them on a 4473?"

Because the feds set the rules on interstate transfers?
If they are all long guns he might be OK. The transfer of a handgun across state lines requires at least one FFL to get involved at the receiving end.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:36:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
"...if there is no law requiring registration.......why oh why, would you put them on a 4473?"

Because the feds set the rules on interstate transfers?
If they are all long guns he might be OK. The transfer of a handgun across state lines requires at least one FFL to get involved at the receiving end.



The transfer of ALL GUNS interstate require at least 1 FFL! ONLY exception is in the settlement of an estate (deceased party), which is luckily not the case here.

The rest of your statements are correct. The Feds determine that private transfer of ANY GUN interstate is a FELONY! Not a recommended course of action to save some money.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 5:33:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Accountant30339:
If he drove down to PA and gave them to you in your living room.........why would you go to the trouble and expense of going to an FFL?? Does PA have a gun registration law that I am unaware of?......if there is no law requiring registration.......why oh why, would you put them on a 4473???

Accountant



The transfer you are proposing is illegal under both federal and PA state laws. Even if the FIL was a resident of PA the private transfer of any handguns are restricted under PA law. The only exceptions are for " transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild."

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 5:39:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 5:40:11 AM EDT by Accountant30339]

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Accountant30339:
If he drove down to PA and gave them to you in your living room.........why would you go to the trouble and expense of going to an FFL?? Does PA have a gun registration law that I am unaware of?......if there is no law requiring registration.......why oh why, would you put them on a 4473???

Accountant



The transfer you are proposing is illegal under both federal and PA state laws.
I don't want to do that![/b]

Even if the FIL was a resident of PA the private transfer of any handguns are restricted under PA law. The only exceptions are for " transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild."

Hmmm....so father-in-law could give to daughter / wife and then wife could give to husband?





For the record: I don't want the guy to break the law and go to jail but all of this is a little silly.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:32:17 AM EDT
"The transfer of ALL GUNS interstate require at least 1 FFL! "

FAce to face sales of long guns are allowed under certain conditions.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:45:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
"The transfer of ALL GUNS interstate require at least 1 FFL! "

FAce to face sales of long guns are allowed under certain conditions.



Private transfers (FTF) of either handguns or long guns is regulated by your state of residence and FTF transfers are only permitted between legal residents of the state they both reside in. Other then the exception for settlement of an estate (and a few others that usually don't apply) all interstate transfers must be made through a FFL in any state for a long gun or only in your state of residence for a handgun.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:55:31 AM EDT
Must suck to be from the east coast. Up here were would simply go visit and take home the fire area. Man to Man. You guys spend to much time thinking what the Goverment will allow you to do with your own property. Please do not move west and bring your way of thinking with you.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:22:26 AM EDT
Jesus Christ and General Jackson. PA doesn't have gun registration, just take the things home.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:37:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By montana_jeepn:
I want to do everthing legal, but do not wish to pay transfer fees/shipping if there is no need.

Thanks!



It appears some of you have a reading comprehension problem. He asked how to do it legally not illegally. If he didn't care one way or the other he wouldn't have asked the question to begin with. Now it's up to him as to what he does. Oh yeah all he needs is to have his wife or another family member drop a dime on him about his illegal firearm transfers if they should have a falling out.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:39:57 AM EDT
There are other long gn face to face rules. By agreements between states face to face transfers between residents of the states are allowed. As a Virginia resident i can purchase long guns in WV and MD and carry them right on home.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:58:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 10:59:37 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
There are other long gn face to face rules. By agreements between states face to face transfers between residents of the states are allowed. As a Virginia resident i can purchase long guns in WV and MD and carry them right on home.



That would be incorrect. ALL interstate transfers of both long guns and handguns are regulated by Federal law. FTF transfers of any gun are only legal between residents of the same state and if permitted under state law. If you are doing a (private) non-dealer FTF transfer with an out-of-state resident you are violating federal law. As a Virginia resident you can purchase long guns in another state from an FFL and not in a FTF private transfer.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:57:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
There are other long gn face to face rules. By agreements between states face to face transfers between residents of the states are allowed. As a Virginia resident i can purchase long guns in WV and MD and carry them right on home.



That would be incorrect. ALL interstate transfers of both long guns and handguns are regulated by Federal law. FTF transfers of any gun are only legal between residents of the same state and if permitted under state law. If you are doing a (private) non-dealer FTF transfer with an out-of-state resident you are violating federal law. As a Virginia resident you can purchase long guns in another state from an FFL and not in a FTF private transfer.



Ditto.

There is no legal means to obtain a firearm outside of your state of residence, unless from, or transferred through, an FFL.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:05:20 PM EDT
I thought I read about some guy (in MA) that wished to give his son-in-law (in PA) his gun collection, but that he lost all the guns in a tragic boating accident before he could give them away.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:44:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
I thought I read about some guy (in MA) that wished to give his son-in-law (in PA) his gun collection, but that he lost all the guns in a tragic boating accident before he could give them away.



Dang, that's terrible. Boats and guns don't mix.



Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:10:52 PM EDT
Since some seem to have a hard time believing the BATFE Laws/Regs, here it is from the horse's ...

www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b2

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]


A person may only buy a firearm within the person's own state, except that he or she may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]



What an individual decides to do is up to them, but here's the actual law in black and white.


Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:33:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Oslow:

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
I thought I read about some guy (in MA) that wished to give his son-in-law (in PA) his gun collection, but that he lost all the guns in a tragic boating accident before he could give them away.



Dang, that's terrible. Boats and guns don't mix.






I agree. Extremely tragic.

Ban boats.... it's for the children.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:16:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LenS:
Since some seem to have a hard time believing the BATFE Laws/Regs, here it is from the horse's ...

www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b2

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]


A person may only buy a firearm within the person's own state, except that he or she may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]



What an individual decides to do is up to them, but here's the actual law in black and white and red.





Thank you very much; that clears things up nicely.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:53:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
I thought I read about some guy (in MA) that wished to give his son-in-law (in PA) his gun collection, but that he lost all the guns in a tragic boating accident before he could give them away.



That's the way I read it.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 5:18:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arcticbear:
Must suck to be from the east coast. Up here were would simply go visit and take home the fire area. Man to Man. You guys spend to much time thinking what the Goverment will allow you to do with your own property. Please do not move west and bring your way of thinking with you.



Check your friends to the south. And east for that matter.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:11:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 3:39:13 AM EDT by montana_jeepn]
I have to laugh a bit reading all this - This is the wife in question.... Husband left for work trip and left screen name logged in....



Don't worry - he will only go through mild harassment and teasing for this. Maybe I need to get a screen name :)
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 4:31:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By montana_jeepn:
I have to laugh a bit reading all this - This is the wife in question.... Husband left for work trip and left screen name logged in....

Don't worry - he will only go through mild harassment and teasing for this. Maybe I need to get a screen name :)



Pr0n check?

Go easy on him! Federal and state laws are kind of complex, and simple answers don't ever seem to co-exist with bureaucracies.

By all means, Mrs. Jeepn, get your own login name, Arfcom has a great Women's forum...and then you can search for the other silly questions he may have asked!

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:02:23 PM EDT
You guys are missing 2 important issues here.

1. Residency is not defined in the Code; it is, in fact, a matter of state not federal law. D/K MA law on residency, but there are certainly states where residence is established simply.

2. The Code permits transfers not only with residents of the states, but also businesses and business owners in that state. It is thus perfectly legal under the Code to go to a state,establish a business (Inc or otherwise) and transfer or recieve a firearm. Again, d/k MA law, but if gift recipient could comply with state possession and transfer law, under these circumstances transfer would be fed legal.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:57:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jagcap:
You guys are missing 2 important issues here.

1. Residency is not defined in the Code; it is, in fact, a matter of state not federal law. D/K MA law on residency, but there are certainly states where residence is established simply.

2. The Code permits transfers not only with residents of the states, but also businesses and business owners in that state. It is thus perfectly legal under the Code to go to a state,establish a business (Inc or otherwise) and transfer or recieve a firearm. Again, d/k MA law, but if gift recipient could comply with state possession and transfer law, under these circumstances transfer would be fed legal.




I disagree. Here's the c&p of the part of the Code where it says what 'residency' is:

(B12) What constitutes residency in a state?
The state of residence is the state in which an individual is present with the intention of making a home in that state.


(humor ON)
So... if his father-in-law decides to "live" in the state in question for, say, a week... he may legally transfer his gun collection! (Humor OFF)
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