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Posted: 7/15/2001 10:29:12 PM EDT
Hi, I've read all the laws about how you can go to Club Fed for 10 years, pay huge fines, etc. But what is a typical sentence for someone with no prior arrests being caught with an unregistered MG? Would it really be jail time for the first offense? A friend of mine years ago got caught with a sawed off shotgun, and it was confiscated. Nothing else happened. Anybody have any experience with this?
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 11:34:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2001 11:32:33 PM EDT by BooMerStick]
a friend of mine got popped with a converted AR and he definitely said it wasn't worth it! did some time. What he told me was.. if you do it? don't tell a soul.... 3 people can keep a secret. if 2 of them are dead
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 11:44:43 AM EDT
I have no interest in testing the system, but I kinda figured if you were an upstanding citizen with no prior record, you probably would not go to jail. But I guess you would.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 11:56:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2001 11:55:28 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
Let's see 1) Felony Conviction-no more owning firearms and possibly losing professional licenses, airline pilot, doctor, lawyer, whatever. 2) The time you spend in jail after being arrested, and before an initial appearance. 3) Any jail time during trial or while awaiting sentencing. 4) Wild legal fees. 5) Fines. 6) Sentenced to prison...any amount is not fun. 7) Keeping in touch with your new jail/prison pals. 9) Probation. 10) Wife, Mom, Dad, Brother, or Sister kick your ass for becominga felon. Not to mention any kids.... my dad can't come to parent teacher conferences he...is in jail, is meeting with his probation officer, is on home detention and isn't allowed out except to work. 11) Losing the right to vote or hold public office in many states. Losing the ability to work for any level of government as an employee or contractor. 12) Not to mention the social stigma. in short if you can't do it legal don't. May I suggest lot's of practice manipulating the trigger really fast...........
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:44:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2001 3:41:47 PM EDT by cyberian]
Realistic penalty....hmmmm...let's see. Try this, the maximum allowed by law. Don't do it!
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 8:11:11 PM EDT
What happened here. Guy had machine guns and silencers all legally registered. Had other title 1 guns of course. Got caught with HiStd. silenced 22 Vietnam bring back never registered. Made bail, no time served. ATF let him sell and transfer all his legally owned guns. Just enough money to pay the lawyers fees and fines. Ends up with probation and never owns guns again. Over a $200 tax. Did not they kill David Koresh and his family over some thing similar? I think Mr Weaver lost more than money also
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 8:46:50 PM EDT
No-AR really hit it on the head. You may get prison time, you may not, but at the very least you will have a felony on your record, and your days of legally possessing ANY firearm are over. Hell, even if you somehow get away scott-free, you'd still shell out enough in legal fees to buy a few legal/registered NFA weapons.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 6:58:21 AM EDT
Well, I agree.........it's a dumb thing to do over saving a $200 tax. Thanks David, I was really just interested in hearing about a case or two where someone was dumb or unlucky enough to skirt the law. I always read that the ATF has no sense of humor at all about these things. They don't slap first time murderers with a warning either, do they?
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 2:30:12 PM EDT
I got to say, our country has a messed up justice system... Being convited of posessing an unregistered NFA weapon its almost as bad as rape/armed robbery/murder... You might as well go rape someone and kill someone for the offense you are gonna get for posessing an unregistered NFA weapon... (Notice how you get alot of jail time for the crime if found posessing "certain" illegal items, yet for crimes like rape and murder (which ALL deserves death sentence BTW) seems light when you see what kind of offense that is... only a few unlucky people (the poor for example) really get death, even people sentenced life get out on parole...)
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 6:15:47 PM EDT
Get a good criminal lawyer with federal experience. He will be able to properly figure the sentencing guidelines to get a range. This is only a guess on his part, though, because the feds will try to sneak in some crap in the sentencing memo to get him some extra points, and thus some extra time.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 6:42:52 PM EDT
You know... I dont understand WHAT exactly does the federal government have to gain by trying to make lawbreakers serve as much time as possible... do they want to overcrowd the federal prison or what? Everytime I hear how the feds put people in jail it just further diminsh my faith in the US government...
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 7:35:14 PM EDT
rahimiv, Let me give you a really big hint...If a person convicted of a felony, especially a violent and attrocious felony, and that person is incarcerated for an extended period of time, during that time, he will not be preying upon the general public. He won't be committing crimes against persons or property except those he can commit within the walls of a prison. Why bother to even have criminal laws if you aren't going to enforce them?
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 7:48:33 AM EDT
It's almost impossible to keep up with the crazy gun laws.......let's see , if I want to cut my HK94 barrel off, I have to register it, but it can't have a retractable stock, or a flash hider, since that would violate the AW ban, or it goes something like that. Ask the ATF? You'll get a different answer every day. Ask you FFL? You get another answer as well. I'm not too confident a DA would take the ignorance excuse on any of these laws, so for some ridiculous technicality, one could lose practically all their rights as a citizen.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 9:53:36 AM EDT
I'm an FFL dealer and set up at most of the gun shows in Texas. We handle a lot of so-called assault weapons, so they're all laid out on the tables. It never ceases to amaze me how many young guys (usually, but some older gents, as well) come up to us and ask 'What does it cost to make one of these weapons fully automatic?' My stock answer is: 'Oh, about ten years and $10,000.00!' The shock on their face is priceless! Then I quickly explain to them the downside of trying to convert a semiautomatic weapon illegally into a full automatic one. Of course, I doubt on a 1st offense you'd get a ten year sentence, but why risk it? If you think NFA 'machine guns' are expensive, just think how expensive the non-NFA 'machine guns' are! Eric The(NoNonsense)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 12:00:52 PM EDT
It depends, just ask OJ. With good lawyers you can get out of most anything, of course price can be an issue. Your best bet would be to fight the law as unconstiutional and therefor unlawful. Does banning militia type weapons "infringe" on your right to keep and bear arms? You bet your ass it does. With enough money and supporters I have no doubt that you could win. the antis would never let it get to the Supreme court for fear of losing and would throw the case. Money is the only concideration but I'm sure you could find a ton of donations. You'd be a fool to just drop it and take the felony conviction. .02$
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 12:44:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2001 6:34:25 PM EDT by PigPen]
Originally Posted By rahimiv: You know... I dont understand WHAT exactly does the federal government have to gain by trying to make lawbreakers serve as much time as possible... do they want to overcrowd the federal prison or what? Everytime I hear how the feds put people in jail it just further diminsh my faith in the US government...
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It's not just federal, it's the same with all law enforcement. It's not a matter of wanting to fill the jails per se or not fill them for that amtter. Most veteran LEO don't care about the rightness or wrongness of the law or the outcome of those laws. They DO CARE about their standing in their respective agencies and their careers (otherwise they might well not be veteran LEO and certainly would not attain rank). My friend, they are thinking only of themselves. Most of them will admit as much privately (and do). Just take a look at the turn over in local law enforcement! The disillusioned rookies leave in a year or two. Most of those who remain do so for reasons other that citizenship and agreement with the laws that they enforce or the system that they are involved with. PigPen
Link Posted: 9/30/2001 9:25:20 PM EDT
If you ever notice it, all gun laws or should I say most gun laws on the federal level are based on interstate commerce. It has been stated in opinions that since every gun has been out of the state at sometime or a part of it has then it is interstate commerce. But, that gets me to wondering what if....lets say you build a reciver out of metal dug from the ground in your state and formed into a receiver in your state, then built into an NFA gun without ever leaving your state. Would that somehow be interstate commerce ? You better be prepared to prove it isn't. Not being able to is a sure conviction. But, back to the issue. I would say you could get anything from nothing to 10+ Years on multiple trumped up charges. I heard of a case where a man was charged with 2 counts for 1 gun. Why, because they considered the DIAS to be an MG and the gun to be an MG and it was therefore 2 violations. They can also hit you with AW violations. Then again on top of Federal charges, the state also may have laws against NFA guns. Notably, Montana (>7.63mm)and a few others don't. Vermont has only minimal fines in the range of $10. But, some other states can send you away on state charges for as long as the Federal sentence or possibly more. But, it all comes down to where you are. The police in the city where I grew up were the laziest I've ever seen. The crime stats claimed it had a low crime rate, but that was only because there was a near-0% arrest rate. Unless you did something serious they didn't want to take the time to do the paperwork. I've seen people walk for Breaking & Entering, Robbery, etc. Then again, one neighbor is still in prison on DD charges for throwing 2 pipebombs at a house. So at least they do something when it comes to attempted murder. But, interestingly, he wasn't charged with attempted murder, but rather Making a "Unregistered" Destructive Device. He was arrested 5 years ago and is still in Prison. But, if you know the Police or you are in an area where they don't go alot then you are less likely to be arrested unless the ATF gets wind of it then prepare for a BBQ. For example, in the mountains of N.C., you can do alot of stuff and get away with it. Why, because it takes 30 Minutes to drive up the mountain and the nearest town was another 20 minutes down the road. If you are somewhere that is inaccessible then, violating the law isn't as likely to get you in trouble as long as you keep your mouth shut. But, in a city especially with either nosy neighbors or a big mouth you are looking at alot of trouble.
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 4:28:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: If you ever notice it, all gun laws or should I say most gun laws on the federal level are based on interstate commerce. It has been stated in opinions that since every gun has been out of the state at sometime or a part of it has then it is interstate commerce. But, that gets me to wondering what if....lets say you build a reciver out of metal dug from the ground in your state and formed into a receiver in your state, then built into an NFA gun without ever leaving your state. Would that somehow be interstate commerce ? You better be prepared to prove it isn't. Not being able to is a sure conviction. ..
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cc, Good question and good hypo. Under your hypo, the feds would not have jurisdiction, period. Only way around it would be if parts made outside the state found their way in the reciever. I/C is an essential element to every federal gun law; it must be present. That would leave the state to prosecute. So far as the original question posed by Glennva, it can't be asnwered. Don't try. Federal Sentencing Guidelines are a complicated animal and are [B]case specific[/B]. Meaning, the guideline range will be determined based on subjective facts regarding the accused, his background, criminal history (and sometimes not-so-criminal history, ie. "related conduct"), his role in the offense (if conspiracy charged), degree of cooperation, substantial assistance, etc. When I calculate guidelines, I count on several hours of work, research and interviews with my client and the eventual cross-references with the U.S. probation department who does their own worksheet. Small errors in calculations can mean years. So the real answer to this question is, "it all depends . . ."
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 9:10:21 AM EDT
My roommate's neighbor's (in the UDel dorms) last year got busted for building bombs out of 2l soda bottles (basically making those little volcanos kids make out of 2l bottles, but left the tops on so they would explode). So, of course the feds bust them for having unregistered DDs. They got out without spending a night in jail, are convicted felons and are probably still on probation (roommate doesnt remember their sentances exactly), but my roommate says the circumstances were quite stupid (bunch of drunk college kids screwing around with household chemicals to make lots of noise and light), so they got off very easy. Kharn
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 9:48:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kharn: My roommate's neighbor's (in the UDel dorms) last year got busted for building bombs out of 2l soda bottles (basically making those little volcanos kids make out of 2l bottles, but left the tops on so they would explode). So, of course the feds bust them for having unregistered DDs. They got out without spending a night in jail, are convicted felons and are probably still on probation (roommate doesnt remember their sentances exactly), but my roommate says the circumstances were quite stupid (bunch of drunk college kids screwing around with household chemicals to make lots of noise and light), so they got off very easy. Kharn
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felony charges for a dry ice bomb?!! wtf
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 1:55:03 PM EDT
Cyrax: They werent using dry ice for the 2l bottle bombs, they were using other chemicals. Like the two arent allowed to have aluminum foil in their rooms, because they mixed some other household chemicals with foil to get some pretty nice explosions. These werent stupid little science-fair type explosions, the feds were amazed that the two survived the night, considering the explosions they created and how drunk they were. Kharn
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 6:56:37 PM EDT
oh must have been the old drano and allumiom foil trick what makes that one nasty is drano is pretty acidic. what happens is the drano reacties with the alluminom foil and kicks off alot of heat and fumes and KABOOOOM!!! back in my young and stupid days my friend showed me that one. now i know alot better
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 8:46:44 AM EDT
anyway back to the topic saying to your new boyfriend "please be gentle"
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 10:04:26 AM EDT
Here's an experience that is 20 years old, so it may not be this way anymore. I personally know of two family members(one is actually an adopted friend) who were arrested for burglary of a building (a felony), taken to court, pled guilty, given probation - 5 years, fined and lost all the normal rights/privileges. Two years later, being good boys, they went back to court to file a "motion for dismissal", were allowed to withdraw guilty plea, the indictment was dismissed and the guys were, "...released from all penalties and disabilities resulting from the offense for which they were convicted.". They sent a request to the BATF to have their right to bear arms reinstated and after meeting with BATF agents, going through the investigative process, they got their letters stating, "Reference is made to your application for restoration of Federal firearms privileges. We are pleased to advise you that we have granted your aplication pursuant to 18 U.S.C. $ 925(c).". The letter goes on to state that this only relieves them of their FEDERAL firearms disabilities, not state or local laws and ordinances. They both went on to work in various areas of law enforcement and other public sevice and DOD jobs. One is no longer a police officer in Texas, but a corrections officer now.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 10:32:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: I'm an FFL dealer and set up at most of the gun shows in Texas. We handle a lot of so-called assault weapons, so they're all laid out on the tables.
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Will you be at the HGCA show in November at the Astro Hall? I'd love to stop by and say 'Hi!' while I'm there. God Bless Texas
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