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Posted: 6/27/2001 12:17:37 AM EDT
I have a question regarding AR-15s. The law says that a rifle must be 26" in overall length. If an Ar-15 is 26" or longer without the stock. Is it legal to not have one. Or does this make it an illegal Assault Weapon. I know I can't have a folding or telescoping stock.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 12:28:02 AM EDT
Well, it has to have the buffer tube to function and that should keep you over the legal length.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 3:33:43 AM EDT
MAN that's an ulgly thought!
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 5:34:05 AM EDT
Wouldn't removing the buttstock make it into [technically] a pistol, and thus an NFA violation (if done without proper paperwork)?
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 6:10:01 AM EDT
First off, I'm assuming were talking about a postban here... That said, a rifle is designed to be fired from the shoulder. 18 USC 921(a)(7)The term ''rifle'' means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. If you removed the stock, you'd either have a pistol or an AOW. Personaly, I'm not too sure which it would fall under, but if it became an AOW, you'd have a problem in that it was not registered as an NFA weapon. If it was merely a pistol, you'd still run afoul of the 1994 AWB which has a 50 oz. weight limit for pistols.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 7:57:48 PM EDT
Having a rifle with the stock removed if perfectly legal, as long as the rifle is still over 26 inches. This is why UZI carbines sometimes came with quick-detatchable stocks, and CARBON-15's still do. This is legal because as Shaggy pointed out the law says: "18 USC 921(a)(7)The term ''rifle'' means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder.... " The AR15 in question has been registered as a rifle and has had the shoulder stock put on it, it is now a rifle forever. This is why you cannot legally reclassify a rifle lower as a pistol lower, and you can't make an AOW from a rifle lower reciver either, the ATF won't allow it, as they still consider it a rifle, shortbarrel or not, stock or not. Oddly, the ATF WILL allow you to put a stock and 16" barrel on a pistol and call it a rifle, just not the other way around.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 10:31:44 PM EDT
>I have a question regarding AR-15s. OK >The law says that a rifle must be 26" in >overall length. Yes, US CODE, TITLE 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Subchapter 921 paragraph 7 & 8 >If an Ar-15 is 26" or longer without the >stock. Is it legal to not have >one. Not legal. Definition of a rifle: 27CFR178, TITLE 27, Chapter 1, Part 178, Sect 178.11 >Or does this make it an illegal Assault >Weapon. Yes, 27CFR178, TITLE 27, Chapter 1, Part 178, Sect 178.11 C >I know I can't have a folding or telescoping >stock. True
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 10:32:35 PM EDT
The Law: US CODE, TITLE 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Subchapter 921: (7) The term ''rifle'' means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. (8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches. (29) The term ''handgun'' means - (A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and (B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled. 27CFR178, TITLE 27, Chapter 1, Part 178, Sect 178.11 Pistol. A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s). (c) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of-- (1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip, (2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer, (3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned, (4) A manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded, and (5) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm Semiautomatic pistol. Any repeating pistol which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge. Semiautomatic rifle. Any repeating rifle which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 10:33:43 PM EDT
27CFR179, TITLE 27, Chapter 1, Part 179, Sect 179.11 Any other weapon. Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. Rifle. A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 9:01:24 AM EDT
When I posted this I didn't get a rsponse that made heads or tails of the issue. So I am BTTing this.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 10:44:30 AM EDT
You were expecting a firearms law to make sense? Don't wait for the fat lady to sing. [;)]
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 2:07:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2001 2:00:33 PM EDT by Vinnie]
OK I may be wrong, but it seems to me you question was answered several times over. you asked:
If an Ar-15 is 26" or longer without the stock. Is it legal to not have one?
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Tex said:
Having a rifle with the stock removed if perfectly legal, as long as the rifle is still over 26 inches. This is why UZI carbines sometimes came with quick-detatchable stocks, and CARBON-15's still do.
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The rest of your question read:
Or does this make it an illegal Assault Weapon?
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Cali kid then asked:
Wouldn't removing the buttstock make it into [technically] a pistol, and thus an NFA violation (if done without proper paperwork)?
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to which Shaggy answered answered:
If you removed the stock, you'd either have a pistol or an AOW. Personaly, I'm not too sure which it would fall under, but if it became an AOW, you'd have a problem in that it was not registered as an NFA weapon. If it was merely a pistol, you'd still run afoul of the 1994 AWB which has a 50 oz. weight limit for pistols.
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Then Tex added:
The AR15 in question has been registered as a rifle and has had the shoulder stock put on it, it is now a rifle forever. This is why you cannot legally reclassify a rifle lower as a pistol lower, and you can't make an AOW from a rifle lower reciver either, the ATF won't allow it, as they still consider it a rifle, shortbarrel or not, stock or not.
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In either case, you'd still have a buffer tube sticking out which would defeat the purpose of removing the buttstock and as steve said:
MAN that's an ulgly thought!
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