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Posted: 6/5/2001 5:05:46 PM EDT
OK, serious question. First, am I correct that it is legal to build your own AR15 from an "80%" lower into a preban, or is it stuck a postban? Next, can you build your own machine gun, short barreled shotgun, short barreled rifle, or a silencer?? I am leaning towards a "no" answer, but I guess it can't hurt asking.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 5:35:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2001 5:34:28 PM EDT by shaggy]
Its a big fat hairy "No" on both questions. Well, sort of... If you build an AR, its got to be a postban. You can't build a MG, unless you've got an 07FFL/SOT, and even then its only going to be a post-sample. You can however build any other NFA weapon you want, as long as get an approved form 1 prior to making anything.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:51:29 PM EDT
as far as post ban ar's the batf has to consider anything they can't prove is a post ban to be a pre ban, therfore as long as the reciver has no markings on it, in theory you can do whatever you want with it, short of class 3. it should be up to the feds to prove that it is a post ban. but if they cant, it must be assumed to be a pre ban. others may correct me if i am wrong.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 8:04:09 PM EDT
Survivalist - I wish you were right, but its the other way around. All BATF has to prove is that you have a "semiautomatic assault weapon" - that is, a rifle with a detachable mag and 2 or more assault features. Doesn't matter if its preban or not - all they have to prove to convict you is that you were in possession of a SAW. If its a preban, you can use that as a defense, but its the defendant's responsibility to prove its a preban.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 8:10:59 PM EDT
i wonder what ever happened to "innocent untill proven guilty". in my position it is quite irrelevent, i no longer recognise government law, only constitutional law... thanks for the info though..
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 8:15:21 PM EDT
if u want to be a test case u can buils a mg just be prepared when people start taking pot shots at u and your family
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 8:25:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrax777: if u want to be a test case u can buils a mg just be prepared when people start taking pot shots at u and your family
View Quote
no family, noone would care. thats why i wouldn't make a good test case, and am likely not a good target. besides, all my guns are hidden whare no sun shines. for all they know i am a cyber commando in the best sence of the word..
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 8:29:19 PM EDT
[b]i wonder what ever happened to "innocent untill proven guilty".[/b] Ask Randy Weaver what happen when he sawed a shotgun too short(We also know they set him up) has for machineguns they are a BIG FAT NO! unless you are a Class 2 manufacture. has for pre or Post i think the only way they would come down on you if the Local law dogs caught you with a preban, and decided to run number's on you to see if it really is eather way don't try it.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 11:58:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 3:19:57 AM EDT
The presumption exists, IN EVERY CASE. Don't go overboard on this one like so many other naysayers. If one of these cases does come to trial, you are still presumed innocent, the government still has it's burden to prove that you possess an AW (like the law or not, they are charged with prosecuting prima facia violators) and then you are allowed to, under our constitution, confront witnesses, testify on your own behalf and present whatever defense you think viable, including that the weapon falls within an exception to the law. Also, don't think for a second that a lawyer, a good one, would not be able to present the defense to a prosecutor before trial, probably before indictment (at the information stage), and pursuade him/her not to pursue the case so long as the defense is cut and dry. I have done it before and, at least in my area where LE and prosecutors have their hands full, such a strategy is often not only successful, but appreciated by prosecutors who don't want to waste their time on petit bullshit. Using hypos like this as a catalyst for proclaiming our justice system DOA is absolutely silly. Real life does not work that way- and yes, there are travesties, like Randy Weaver's case, but they are not the norm. If they were, you would not hear Weaver's name used several hundred times a day to prove the same "point". You would see dozens or hundreds of others like it. My HO.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 4:22:41 PM EDT
OK, I figured no machineguns. That's ok. I guess since the short barrel is actually the lower, I'd have to go the class 3 $200 stamp route anyway. Don't know why I mentioned them earlier. I don't want to get into the whole "burden of proof thread". Been there too many times. [:)] So by filling out a Form 1 for say a silencer, do I still have to pay the $200 tax, even though I am making it for myself and can't sell it?
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 4:36:35 PM EDT
Actually you CAN build a machinegun.... You can manufacture ONE prototype machinegun only AFTER you get your blueprints approved by the ATF and AFTER you submit your form for and pay your $200 tax BEFORE you build it. You are allowed to make one prototype a year for testing purposes. It is in your name, not considering a Dealer Sample. However if you want to sell it, it will transfer like a Post 86. The ATF has to approve the blueprints to make sure you aren't putting together an MG from a kit. If they say yes, then they issue you a serial number to be stamped on the reciever and have a field agent come inspect it. Remember you can ONLY build it after all the paperwork. Call up the ATF tech branch or a Class III dealer that produces items, like silencers Et cetera.. You can't actually put the final design into production and sell it. It's much the same as being able to produce a rifle or pistol as long as it follows all laws and paperwork. Hope this helps some. Anyone doubting the information can call the ATF and confirm it.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 5:58:24 PM EDT
Sorry for the above, you do have to possess a SOT to do that. I will get in contact with the Tech branch just to get the details.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 2:18:02 PM EDT
You can't build a zip gun without running afoul of BATF. Once you start manufacturing some sort of "receiver" you're stepping into it.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 10:10:54 PM EDT
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