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Posted: 4/12/2021 6:41:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I ask for a quote for a few parts to build uppers, barrels, upper receivers, bcg's about 10 each, the distributer (will keep it under raps for now) call the feds saying my request was strange, and they called me saying if I was going to build uppers, I needed a Manufacturer's license.... after 9 minutes conversation he told me that he was satisfied and was not going to pursue the case... WTF? do I need a license to put uppers together? as far as I know only firearms require a license are they considering uppers as firearms now? The MOST Interesting question is: who actually has ALL of those parts instock right now LOL second is - which of the ARFCom "vendors" would one have to "ask for a quote" from? also, seems strange; most all vendors currently have purchase limits set for certain parts. Especially BCG's |
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Posted: 4/12/2021 6:44:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: I ask for a quote for a few parts to build uppers, barrels, upper receivers, bcg's about 10 each, the distributer (will keep it under raps for now) call the feds saying my request was strange, and they called me saying if I was going to build uppers, I needed a Manufacturer's license.... after 9 minutes conversation he told me that he was satisfied and was not going to pursue the case... WTF? do I need a license to put uppers together? as far as I know only firearms require a license are they considering uppers as firearms now?  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/12/2021 6:49:15 PM EDT
[#3]
OP is probably going to safe thread this one.
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Posted: 4/12/2021 6:50:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Maybe the OP was speaking in a weird accent and sounded like a terrorist
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Posted: 4/12/2021 6:57:52 PM EDT
[#5]
In.
Vendor is probably CTD... that would be poetic... 
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Posted: 4/12/2021 7:00:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The MOST Interesting question is: who actually has ALL of those parts instock right now LOL Ha! As to the OP; here's what I suspect happened. ATF probably has implemented a rule to the large manufactures to report large sales; to which they WILL comply, or else - type deal. ATF has discretion to pull a license for any violation, and they are very good at finding meaningless little violations by someone somewhere. Just like they did to border state gun-stores, who have to report the purchase of more than one gun within the same week. My guess is purchasing of a large number of parts kits (or uppers), is probably viewed as a tell of someone who is manufacturing ghost guns. To be honest, if I was looking for a tell of someone who's illegally manufacturing and illegally selling guns to people to circumvent background checks, I'd probably start there too. What I don't think it is, is some gun manufacturer unilaterally going busy body and getting into your business by choice. Or at least, I sure hope not. |
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Posted: 4/12/2021 7:01:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha! As to the OP; here's what I suspect happened. ATF probably has implemented a rule to the large manufactures to report large sales; to which they WILL comply, or else - type deal. ATF has discretion to pull a license for any violation, and they are very good at finding meaningless little violations by someone somewhere. Just like they did to border state gun-stores, who have to report the purchase of more than one gun within the same week. My guess is purchasing of a large number of parts kits (or uppers), is probably viewed as a tell of someone who is manufacturing ghost guns. To be honest, if I was looking for a tell of someone who's illegally manufacturing and illegally selling guns to people to circumvent background checks, I'd probably start there too. What I don't think it is, is some gun manufacturer unilaterally going busy body and getting into your business by choice. Or at least, I sure hope not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The MOST Interesting question is: who actually has ALL of those parts instock right now LOL Ha! As to the OP; here's what I suspect happened. ATF probably has implemented a rule to the large manufactures to report large sales; to which they WILL comply, or else - type deal. ATF has discretion to pull a license for any violation, and they are very good at finding meaningless little violations by someone somewhere. Just like they did to border state gun-stores, who have to report the purchase of more than one gun within the same week. My guess is purchasing of a large number of parts kits (or uppers), is probably viewed as a tell of someone who is manufacturing ghost guns. To be honest, if I was looking for a tell of someone who's illegally manufacturing and illegally selling guns to people to circumvent background checks, I'd probably start there too. What I don't think it is, is some gun manufacturer unilaterally going busy body and getting into your business by choice. Or at least, I sure hope not. 
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Posted: 4/12/2021 7:02:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Tagged to see vendor named.
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Posted: 4/12/2021 7:05:19 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 4/12/2021 7:11:51 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 4/12/2021 7:16:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Tag.
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Posted: 4/12/2021 7:20:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Tell us who the vendor was.
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Posted: 4/12/2021 7:26:52 PM EDT
[#13]
this is just another "look at me" thread.
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Posted: 4/12/2021 7:33:12 PM EDT
[#14]
OP prob just had his credit card declined
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Posted: 4/12/2021 7:36:11 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 4/12/2021 8:54:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Rated this thread TROLL
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Posted: 4/12/2021 9:57:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rated this thread TROLL wait... what? When did that button show up? |
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Posted: 4/12/2021 10:14:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: as soon as the officer start going over the list of items of my quote, I stop him and said those are not firearms, he agreed but said it was a grey area, since I was putting them together it would be best to just apply for a manufacturer license, he went as far as telling me the cost of the license and that it would last for 3 years, I don't believe I did anything wrong but I just want to be sure.... that's why I'm willing to pay for an attorneys advise.. How much is a license? And how hard is it to get one? |
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Posted: 4/12/2021 10:14:52 PM EDT
[#19]
OP: Are you a troll of will you man up and say what vendor? Uppers are not against the law, in fact you could sell a person unable to buy a gun one.
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Posted: 4/12/2021 10:19:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe they were inquiring about the child porn instead of the uppers? What child porn?. They don't  Also, they are considering 50 cal uppers as firearms so the OP's story might not be a stretch. |
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Posted: 4/12/2021 10:27:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...that's why I'm willing to pay for an attorneys advise.. And pay you will if you seek out an attorney that actually has experience in federal firearms law. Know any you want to toss a stack of cash at or you just gonna call an ambulance chaser off a bill board? |
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Posted: 4/12/2021 10:39:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And pay you will if you seek out an attorney that actually has experience in federal firearms law. Know any you want to toss a stack of cash at or you just gonna call an ambulance chaser off a bill board? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ...that's why I'm willing to pay for an attorneys advise.. And pay you will if you seek out an attorney that actually has experience in federal firearms law. Know any you want to toss a stack of cash at or you just gonna call an ambulance chaser off a bill board? The dude must be a troll what he says doesn’t make any sense. Like you said, I can’t imagine some random attorney would know. |
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Posted: 4/12/2021 10:45:13 PM EDT
[#23]
In before SuperPrecision!!
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Posted: 4/12/2021 10:57:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Tagged for the inevitable disappointment.
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Posted: 4/13/2021 5:52:04 AM EDT
[#25]
I think people need to take it easy on the OP until more information comes out. This has a kind of New World Order vibe to it and given the shift in the political climate, it would not be at all surprising if the new "AFT" Czar is advising distributors to cooperate and feed the feds info on big purchases or something might happen with their license renewal paperwork. With the new push that POTUS is trying to kick off, they may be trying to identify folks that could be "manufacturing". Remember, you can only assemble parts for yourself or else you're a manufacturer and in the minds of the anti gun crowd, 1 "assault rifle" is too many so why would you build 10?
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Posted: 4/13/2021 6:49:12 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NAME THE VENDOR. Indeed.... NAME THE VENDOR.! |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 7:15:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think people need to take it easy on the OP until more information comes out. This has a kind of New World Order vibe to it and given the shift in the political climate, it would not be at all surprising if the new "AFT" Czar is advising distributors to cooperate and feed the feds info on big purchases or something might happen with their license renewal paperwork. With the new push that POTUS is trying to kick off, they may be trying to identify folks that could be "manufacturing". Remember, you can only assemble parts for yourself or else you're a manufacturer and in the minds of the anti gun crowd, 1 "assault rifle" is too many so why would you build 10? I agree, this is a tech forum, not GD. From my vantage point a whole lot of warnings are in order in this thread for the GD commentary. |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 7:18:40 AM EDT
[#28]
This over a quote?
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Posted: 4/13/2021 7:25:25 AM EDT
[#29]
They think OP has gotten set up to make 80% lowers and is making “untraceable” guns for the criminals.
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Posted: 4/13/2021 7:32:14 AM EDT
[#30]
A fudd vendor gets to remain anonymous? WOW. I didn't realize they were entitled to such a privilege.
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Posted: 4/13/2021 8:04:38 AM EDT
[#31]
NAME THE VENDOR!
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Posted: 4/13/2021 8:33:43 AM EDT
[#32]
Rated Troll
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Posted: 4/13/2021 8:46:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Op is a fucking LIAR... If that happened to ANYONE with set of balls he would call them out and cancel the order.... TROLL thread not "safe"
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Posted: 4/13/2021 8:52:19 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 4/13/2021 9:22:26 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guys you are missing the point of my question "do I need a license to put uppers together? as far as I know only firearms require a license are they considering uppers as firearms now?" and yes I'm pretty mad at those fuckers, but I won't say the name until I speak with an attorney. No, you don't!!! Only lowers and mating the uppers to assembled lowers. Now give us the deets on the vendor!! |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 9:35:06 AM EDT
[#36]
Just curious, were you planning to build these uppers for resale and did you indicate to the vendor that you were wanting parts to build uppers for resale?
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Posted: 4/13/2021 9:40:17 AM EDT
[#37]
NAMN THE VENDOR PLEASE
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Posted: 4/13/2021 9:49:17 AM EDT
[#38]
If you called up the vendor and said, "hey, get me a price on 10 upper parts kits, I have some lowers sitting around, and I'm going to build complete rifles and sell them", they could legitimately think you were engaged in manufacturing.
Back in the 2012-13 panic, people were doing that, and the ATF did, in fact take the position that was manufacturing requiring a 07 FFL based on their 2010 oppinion. "ATF's long-standing position is that any activities that result in the making of firearms for sale ordistribution, to include installing parts in or on firearm frames and receivers, and processes that primarilyenhance a firearm's durability, constitute firearms manufacturing that may require a manufacturer'slicense. " If OP told the vendor, "hey I want 10 upper parts kits, I want to have a different AR-15 for every day of the week" There is NO legal issue. Now, I still think its NONE of the vendor's business, but it would be wildly stupid to mention you are going to transfer them to other people. I would guess OP said something that triggered the vendor to think he was manufacturing for other people. |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 9:49:35 AM EDT
[#39]
You guys need to start thinking critically. I'll bet money the ATF is leaning hard on manufacturers to report parts sales that may indicate bulk builds of "ghost guns."
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Ghost-Gun-Concerns-Prompt-Feds-to-Meet-With-Firearms-Makers-ATF-officials-meet-with-manufacturers/5-2439787/ |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 9:56:22 AM EDT
[#40]
The vendor may have suspected you were the ATF. I'm sure they're peppering their anguses pretty good right now.
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Posted: 4/13/2021 9:59:49 AM EDT
[#41]
Safe thread, much ghey, very fail
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Posted: 4/13/2021 10:12:57 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys need to start thinking critically. I'll bet money the ATF is leaning hard on manufacturers to report parts sales that may indicate bulk builds of "ghost guns." https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Ghost-Gun-Concerns-Prompt-Feds-to-Meet-With-Firearms-Makers-ATF-officials-meet-with-manufacturers/5-2439787/ The vendor knows who they are, the OP knows, and the ATF knows (allegedly!), so why the look-at-me-I-have-a-secret stuff? |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 10:15:57 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not wrong. But the unwillingness to name the vendor makes the whole thread seem suspiciously troll-y in my eyes. The vendor knows who they are, the OP knows, and the ATF knows (allegedly!), so why the look-at-me-I-have-a-secret stuff? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You guys need to start thinking critically. I'll bet money the ATF is leaning hard on manufacturers to report parts sales that may indicate bulk builds of "ghost guns." https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Ghost-Gun-Concerns-Prompt-Feds-to-Meet-With-Firearms-Makers-ATF-officials-meet-with-manufacturers/5-2439787/ The vendor knows who they are, the OP knows, and the ATF knows (allegedly!), so why the look-at-me-I-have-a-secret stuff? |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 10:24:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or OP indeed said something very dumb to the vendor, now knows it, and is hiding now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You guys need to start thinking critically. I'll bet money the ATF is leaning hard on manufacturers to report parts sales that may indicate bulk builds of "ghost guns." https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Ghost-Gun-Concerns-Prompt-Feds-to-Meet-With-Firearms-Makers-ATF-officials-meet-with-manufacturers/5-2439787/ The vendor knows who they are, the OP knows, and the ATF knows (allegedly!), so why the look-at-me-I-have-a-secret stuff? I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that could reasonably be my initial thought. Am I not allowed to buy stripped upper receivers and resell them? How about handguards? What if I drop Magpul front sights on a couple handguards, can I then not sell them? Everything about this stuff is deliberately vague, confusing, and arbitrary to the extent that rules always stacked against law-abiding gun owners can be considered "arbitrary". |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 10:40:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Tag for vendor. That's not right.
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Posted: 4/13/2021 10:40:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect the employee was new and not versed in gun law. Call to Gmen was out of ignorance. Lawyer? How were you harmed? Generally can't bring a case without harm being demonstrated. Because the person said he wasn't going to pursue the case does meant they won't .... I'd get a lawyer on speed dial if you can afford one. ATF going to Be ATF |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 10:41:06 AM EDT
[#47]
I dont care what the OP said... WHO IS THE RAT?
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Posted: 4/13/2021 10:42:34 AM EDT
[#48]
Perhaps the OP is worried about a defamation suit and wants to consult an attorney to make sure he doesn't step on his dick.
That seems to be a pretty legitimate reason not to name the vendor at this time. |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 10:48:41 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suppose. Although "very dumb" might be a little extreme. In my plebe citizen mind the serialized part (lower receiver) is the "firearm", the one piece we have to acquire from an FFL, so assembling some uppers to sell doesn't even immediately strike me as too outlandish. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that could reasonably be my initial thought. Am I not allowed to buy stripped upper receivers and resell them? How about handguards? What if I drop Magpul front sights on a couple handguards, can I then not sell them? Everything about this stuff is deliberately vague, confusing, and arbitrary to the extent that rules always stacked against law-abiding gun owners can be considered "arbitrary". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You guys need to start thinking critically. I'll bet money the ATF is leaning hard on manufacturers to report parts sales that may indicate bulk builds of "ghost guns." https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Ghost-Gun-Concerns-Prompt-Feds-to-Meet-With-Firearms-Makers-ATF-officials-meet-with-manufacturers/5-2439787/ The vendor knows who they are, the OP knows, and the ATF knows (allegedly!), so why the look-at-me-I-have-a-secret stuff? I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that could reasonably be my initial thought. Am I not allowed to buy stripped upper receivers and resell them? How about handguards? What if I drop Magpul front sights on a couple handguards, can I then not sell them? Everything about this stuff is deliberately vague, confusing, and arbitrary to the extent that rules always stacked against law-abiding gun owners can be considered "arbitrary". If you purely built an upper and there was no lowers involved, you'd probably be good legally. Admittedly, the department of state was indicating that you might need ITAR registration for building uppers at one point, but it was dialed back by the Trump administration at least temporarily. The people that got in trouble, that I know of were selling upper(s) with serialized lowers that they had bought on 4473s. One of them was literally taking assembled uppers from one vendor, putting a complete lower on it, and selling the combination for a profit on facebook. I think the vendor overreacted and you should name them, period. I think telling anyone that you're buying stuff to resell, whether gun related or not, if you don't need to, is bad. I.E. they may well report your balloon animal business to the state as needing to collect tax, get licenses, etc. The state or IRS may notice it while auditing the vendor. |
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Posted: 4/13/2021 10:50:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suppose. Although "very dumb" might be a little extreme. In my plebe citizen mind the serialized part (lower receiver) is the "firearm", the one piece we have to acquire from an FFL, so assembling some uppers to sell doesn't even immediately strike me as too outlandish. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that could reasonably be my initial thought. Am I not allowed to buy stripped upper receivers and resell them? How about handguards? What if I drop Magpul front sights on a couple handguards, can I then not sell them? Everything about this stuff is deliberately vague, confusing, and arbitrary to the extent that rules always stacked against law-abiding gun owners can be considered "arbitrary". Are you asking what the laws say or what the ATF says? Because the answers are often not the same. |
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