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Posted: 5/15/2019 12:17:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What happened OP? |
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Posted: 5/15/2019 12:21:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
its not 2008 |
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Posted: 5/15/2019 5:16:23 PM EDT
[#3]
As many have stated before, take the money. Be glad they are willing to pay you at all.
ATF has F**ked before and they will try to cover their ass. Back in late 1977 RPB brought out the semi auto MAC-10 they were available to purchase as a pistol. Living in NJ at the time a pistol permit was required to purchase one. My friend at the time a LEO was also a FFL dealer. I think we bought about 12 of them. I had just started as a LEO and was on probation. After we received the pistols I saw an ad in Shot Gun News for a Mac-10 parts kit. It included all of the parts and a demilled lower receiver that was de milled per ATF guidlines. Not that I would have tried to make a full auto 
Apparently the ATF F**cked up in the de mill process and now wanted all of the de milled Mac-10's back. They subpoenaed shipping records of the company that sold sold them, then went to the buyers and told us that we had to surrender them with no compensation. The agent that came to my house had no idea that there was a semi auto Mac-10 on the market. I could have told them to pound sand, but I was on probation at the time and did not need any problems! Take the money and next time remember "I sold it" |
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Posted: 5/15/2019 8:57:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something I just thought of... perhaps the PD discovered that the firearm is a key piece of evidence in a case unrelated to the tax case. They know that they legally sold the gun, but now realize that they sold the primary piece of evidence to another case, so they want it back, because without it, they don't have the key evidence in another case... Or they want to use the gun as evidence to leverage someone else into cooperation on a different case. |
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Posted: 5/15/2019 9:10:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've talked to an attorney, just don't care enough about it to put up a fight over it. I do want a fair settlement though that's achievable. ETA: never mind. didn't realize it was up to 4 pages already. sorry. |
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Posted: 5/15/2019 9:14:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Couldn't you just "sell" them the serialized part, and keep the rest?
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Posted: 5/15/2019 9:21:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Couldn't you just "sell" them the serialized part, and keep the rest? |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 12:47:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Take their offer or pepper your anus They are being nice and could make it miserable for you |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 1:02:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Net present value.
Learn it. Txl |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 11:58:08 AM EDT
[#10]
They emailed me the agreement to hold harmless, I asked for the letter stating that I have done nothing wrong or illegal and they are consulting with the US Attorney's Office on getting that drafted. There is no option to buy back after the case is resolved.
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Posted: 5/21/2019 12:24:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Not for nothing....but looking at pie in the sky... Completely possible that the tax case is going to be settled and the owner is going to get all his stuff back. Which would be a good thing.
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Posted: 5/21/2019 12:50:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not for nothing....but looking at pie in the sky... Completely possible that the tax case is going to be settled and the owner is going to get all his stuff back. Which would be a good thing. |
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Posted: 5/21/2019 12:53:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that is the case then the chain of evidence is FUBAR'ed on the gun. |
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Posted: 5/22/2019 1:32:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Got the letter back. Part is red was added at my request. Any lawyers want to chime in?
ACCEPTANCE BY CLAIMANT/WAIVER OF CLAIMS/
AGREEMENT TO HOLD U.S. GOVERNMENT HARMLESS I, _____________________________, the claimant and beneficiary, do hereby accept the within-stated award, compromise, or settlement as final and conclusive on me, on my heirs, executors, administrators or assigns, and agree that said acceptance constitutes a complete release by me, my heirs, executors, administrators or assigns of any and all claims, demands, rights, and causes of action of whatsoever kind and nature, arising now or in the future from, and by reason of any and all known and unknown, foreseen and unforeseen, bodily and personal injuries (including wrongful death), damages to property, breaches of contract or law, and any other acts or omissions, and the consequences thereof, resulting, and to result, from the same subject matter that gave rise to the claim for which I or my heirs, executors, administrators, or assigns, and each of them, now have or may hereafter acquire against the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and the United States and against the employees(s) of the Government whose acts or omissions gave rise to the claim by reason of the same subject matter. I further agree to indemnify and hold harmless ATF and the United States, its agents, servants and employees from any and all claims or causes of action that arise or may arise from the acts or omissions that gave rise to the claim by reason of the same subject matter. I understand that I may consult with an attorney prior to signing this agreement, if I so chose. In addition, your purchase of the firearm did not appear to be in violation of a provision of the Gun Control Act. Amount Paid for Satisfaction in Full: __________________. ______________________ ________________________ NAME (CLAIMANT): Date ______________________ ATF WITNESS |
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Posted: 5/22/2019 1:46:09 PM EDT
[#15]
 Bobby Fuller Four - I Fought The Law(1966) |
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Posted: 5/22/2019 5:21:14 PM EDT
[#16]
"did not appear to be in violation"
"ATF WITNESS" 
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Posted: 5/23/2019 12:00:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Was that written in with crayon too?
WTF? This whole thing screams fishy to me. The letter is continually referring to you in the 1st-person but the part added in red refers to you in the 2nd-person. Which legally would not likely stand up. It's very obvious somebody that barely graduated high-school added that in and didn't even run it past legal. It would CYA about as good as a single sheet of TP would keep you dry in a downpour. IANAL IMHO, I think there is more to this story and the handling of it is very amateurish. I know you want to stay away from a lawyer but it may be time to involve one just to make sure you're not falling into some sort of trap or messed up "crooked agent" type of deal. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 12:36:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
do you buy guns to lose money when someone makes a mistake and wants them back? if they lose money, that's fine. if they appreciate that's fine too. they are tools and collectibles to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: so you buy guns to make a profit?  It was an honest mistake. They are making you 100% whole. You are asking them to give you a profit. That's not the way to do this. They have the legal right to seize it...but they are trying to handle it politely. Be nice...if you want them to be nice. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 1:59:45 AM EDT
[#19]
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so if you bought 1oz of gold in 2008 for $850 and they want you to surrender it now for $850 when it's worth $1300, there's nothing you can do about it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Your option is to be made whole again and that is what they are doing |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 3:35:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not how this works...If I make a "mistake", and sell gold at a market low, I don't get to take it back at a market high at the original price. Not to mention the cost of OP's time and the opportunity cost of having his money tied up in the rifle. They fucked up, it's on them to make it right. ETA: OP, what is the legal status of the rifle? Did they violate department policy in selling it to you? Why do they need it back so bad? What I don't understand is why ATF is involved at all. Is this an NFA weapon OP? |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 4:25:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Break even and get the man back out of your life? Take the money and run. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 8:36:05 AM EDT
[#22]
I would rather have them seize it and lose money then sign that crappy paper they want you to sign.
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Posted: 5/23/2019 10:51:55 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My guess is that it was evidence that is still needed in court. As the PD can't produce it, the Court will rape them, making the DA very unhappy. Even if the OP does give it up, they now have a chain of custody problem that I don't know how they will get around. Court will still rape them and the DA will still be very unhappy. What I don't understand is why ATF is involved at all. Is this an NFA weapon OP? |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 11:07:45 AM EDT
[#24]
A thought and a question for the Op.
Question: Unless it's already been mentioned, why is the specific gun in question a mystery. What the fuck is it? Brand, type? Why the needless cryptic discussion of this secret commemorative gun? Thought: The idea that you're seeking to actually profit on this, given that a Federal agency, who is under no obligation to compensate you at all, is so mind bogglingly stupid it's difficult to effectively quantify in words alone. You are able to be made whole on the cost you invested. Now you feel the ATF should step up and say "Gee whiz, that sweet, mystery commemorative gun has modestly increased in value over the last 365 days. We should also give you the difference as well." Dude, here's a tip and a clue. Consider yourself lucky. There is a direct correlation between ones proximity to almost any Federal agency and ones happiness and liberty. Take your money, give them the fuckin gun and move on with your life. I can't believe this requires some sort of group consensus. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 11:14:52 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A thought and a question for the Op. Question: Unless it's already been mentioned, why is the specific gun in question a mystery. What the fuck is it? Brand, type? Why the needless cryptic discussion of this secret commemorative gun? Thought: The idea that you're seeking to actually profit on this, given that a Federal agency, who is under no obligation to compensate you at all, is so mind bogglingly stupid it's difficult to effectively quantify in words alone. You are able to be made whole on the cost you invested. Now you feel the ATF should step up and say "Gee whiz, that sweet, mystery commemorative gun has modestly increased in value over the last 365 days. We should also give you the difference as well." Dude, here's a tip and a clue. Consider yourself lucky. There is a direct correlation between ones proximity to almost any Federal agency and ones happiness and liberty. Take your money, give them the fuckin gun and move on with your life. I can't believe this requires some sort of group consensus. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 11:23:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because it's easily identifiable and I'm paranoid about which alphabet agencies read this. Does it matter what kind of gun it is? It's not NFA. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 12:53:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A thought and a question for the Op. Question: Unless it's already been mentioned, why is the specific gun in question a mystery. What the fuck is it? Brand, type? Why the needless cryptic discussion of this secret commemorative gun? Thought: The idea that you're seeking to actually profit on this, given that a Federal agency, who is under no obligation to compensate you at all, is so mind bogglingly stupid it's difficult to effectively quantify in words alone. You are able to be made whole on the cost you invested. Now you feel the ATF should step up and say "Gee whiz, that sweet, mystery commemorative gun has modestly increased in value over the last 365 days. We should also give you the difference as well." Dude, here's a tip and a clue. Consider yourself lucky. There is a direct correlation between ones proximity to almost any Federal agency and ones happiness and liberty. Take your money, give them the fuckin gun and move on with your life. I can't believe this requires some sort of group consensus. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 6:02:28 PM EDT
[#28]
I also don't understand the need to keep the type of gun secret... you bought it on Gunbroker, a website available to the public. What it is and who you bought it from is public knowledge.
And I agree with what others have already posted... take the money, return the gun, and be glad they don't just come and confiscate it. 
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Posted: 5/23/2019 6:31:05 PM EDT
[#29]
why all the curiosity about the gun? it doesn't change the facts of the case. just some people people don't like posting their serial numbers, this firearm may be easily recognizable.
we are working on arrangements for the transfer and reimbursement for said gun. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 6:38:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also don't understand the need to keep the type of gun secret... you bought it on Gunbroker, a website available to the public. What it is and who you bought it from is public knowledge. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 9:43:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also don't understand the need to keep the type of gun secret... you bought it on Gunbroker, a website available to the public. What it is and who you bought it from is public knowledge. And I agree with what others have already posted... take the money, return the gun, and be glad they don't just come and confiscate it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2019 8:01:14 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because it's easily identifiable and I'm paranoid about which alphabet agencies read this. Does it matter what kind of gun it is? It's not NFA.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/25/2019 4:11:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why all the curiosity about the gun? |
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Posted: 6/1/2019 4:53:16 PM EDT
[#34]
The police department may not have had valid authority to sell the gun to anyone.
They likely did not 'OWN' it even though they had possession. Someone at that department is going to be in a lot of trouble for making a mistake like that. As in a career ending mistake. |
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Posted: 6/4/2019 2:46:03 PM EDT
[#35]
firearm surrendered. signed a release and surrender form. got check.
asked about the story again. seems it was held in evidence during the trial. after the trial they were supposed to be destroyed. PD sold them after the trial. firearm is now on it's way to being destroyed. i guess our tax dollars at work. |
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Posted: 6/4/2019 2:53:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you don't have a dog, then one will be assigned to you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Take their offer or pepper your anus They are being nice and could make it miserable for you I don't have any dogs so I'm good there. 
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Posted: 6/4/2019 4:09:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The police department may not have had valid authority to sell the gun to anyone. They likely did not 'OWN' it even though they had possession. Someone at that department is going to be in a lot of trouble for making a mistake like that. As in a career ending mistake. They have the firearm back. It will be destroyed. “What mis-sold firearm?” See how easy that was? |
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Posted: 6/4/2019 4:22:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Mistakes happen and the ATF is being fair with you on this one by making you whole as if you never bought the firearm. You can dig your heels in and fight over $500 of unrealized "profit" you believe you hold in the gun, but play stupid games, win stupid prizes and all that.
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Posted: 6/4/2019 7:26:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Firearm, make, model....still a fuckin mystery.
Firearm known specifically by LE up to and including the ATF. OP is contacted by and communicates back and forth with the ATF about this specific firearm. OP surrenders firearm to ATF and receives compensation, thus dissolving his involvement and ownership of said firearm.....forever. Firearm on its way to being destroyed, never to be owned, operated, seen or possessed by another human being ever again. Firearm make and model: Still a closely held secret by the OP. 
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Posted: 6/4/2019 8:25:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are going to get their gun back. Option A was to ask you nicely Either I missed something or it's not obvious how the BATFE has any legitimate interest. What I'm seeing: Judge orders firearm seized from somebody who owes taxes? Police Department seizes it, sells it to somebody, who lists it on the internet and sells it to OP. Proceeds of original sale went towards tax debt? The PD was acting as agent for the tax collectors when they sold it? The PD was just supposed to hold it and not sell it, and the PD never actually owned it? |
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Posted: 6/5/2019 3:09:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The PD was just supposed to hold it and not sell it, and the PD never actually owned it? |
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Posted: 7/30/2019 4:33:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Cowabunga it is.
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:19:08 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Firearm, make, model....still a fuckin mystery. Firearm known specifically by LE up to and including the ATF. OP is contacted by and communicates back and forth with the ATF about this specific firearm. OP surrenders firearm to ATF and receives compensation, thus dissolving his involvement and ownership of said firearm.....forever. Firearm on its way to being destroyed, never to be owned, operated, seen or possessed by another human being ever again. Firearm make and model: Still a closely held secret by the OP.  
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:33:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Anybody got the link to the lady driver that didn’t want to comply with signing a ticket and moving on? May be relevant to OP....
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:56:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
firearm surrendered. signed a release and surrender form. got check. asked about the story again. seems it was held in evidence during the trial. after the trial they were supposed to be destroyed. PD sold them after the trial. firearm is now on it's way to being destroyed. i guess our tax dollars at work. |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 9:40:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Too late to tell them you already resold it ?
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Posted: 8/3/2019 10:17:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I smell something fishy here. I can think of no legitimate reason not to reveal the identity of this 'Top Secret' firearm at this point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Firearm, make, model....still a fuckin mystery. Firearm known specifically by LE up to and including the ATF. OP is contacted by and communicates back and forth with the ATF about this specific firearm. OP surrenders firearm to ATF and receives compensation, thus dissolving his involvement and ownership of said firearm.....forever. Firearm on its way to being destroyed, never to be owned, operated, seen or possessed by another human being ever again. Firearm make and model: Still a closely held secret by the OP. |
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Posted: 8/4/2019 4:50:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They seized it in partial payment of a tax debt so that they could pay to have it destroyed? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
firearm surrendered. signed a release and surrender form. got check. asked about the story again. seems it was held in evidence during the trial. after the trial they were supposed to be destroyed. PD sold them after the trial. firearm is now on it's way to being destroyed. i guess our tax dollars at work. It sounds like they jumped the gun and sold it without proper authorization (in this case a court order to sell). The Court that orders the seizure is often NOT the same Court that orders the sale. Seizure is one pleading. Sale is another. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 11:28:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too late to tell them you already resold it ? And he could have kept it at another location other than his house. I am doubtfully they would spend a lot of time and effort to try and find it over this matter. Not advocating this course of action just relaying how one could in theory avoid turning over the weapon |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 11:48:14 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Help me make sure I understand: You bought a rifle off of GunBroker from a Police Department that now tells you they made a mistake and would appreciate your help in making it right, and you want to make sure you profit as much as possible off the mistake. Is that correct? |
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