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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:03:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no  or they will just burn your church down and take your gun. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:05:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the gun had depreciated in value and they offered you what you paid for it and not the lower amount it was now worth, would you take the offer or tell them you want the lower amount? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:06:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so if you bought 1oz of gold in 2008 for $850 and they want you to surrender it now for $850 when it's worth $1300, there's nothing you can do about it? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:12:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also I bet someone wants that “collectible” now and this is their easy way to get it |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:14:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Everybody is correct that you should take the check and move on OP. I said I would probably fuck with them after seeking legal counsel but thats because I think its fun to poke the bear and can afford to lose a little here and there.
There is always a chance you could win but I would think your only reprisal would be to sue the pd that sold it to you. The gov owes you notif it was theirs when wrongfully sold. If you dont have money you can afford to lose than you might want to cut and run before you lose what you invested. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:21:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everybody is correct that you should take the check and move on OP. I said I would probably fuck with them after seeking legal counsel but thats because I think its fun to poke the bear and can afford to lose a little here and there. There is always a chance you could win but I would think your only reprisal would be to sue the pd that sold it to you. The gov owes you notif it was theirs when wrongfully sold. If you dont have money you can afford to lose than you might want to cut and run before you lose what you invested. thought their offer was reasonable but not fair but they pretty much let me know they don't care so it's a take it or leave it situation. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:23:30 PM EDT
[#7]
one thing's for sure, I'd go wear the barrel out before I gave it back.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:31:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
one thing's for sure, I'd go wear the barrel out before I gave it back. 
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:35:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A limited edition collectible made for the collector's market. Can be a shooter but wasn't marketed as one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, what is the gun? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:43:18 PM EDT
[#10]
"what gun???? ....... ooo that one, i sold that face to face 4 months ago to some guy at a gun show."
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:43:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can say you sold it already. Most states don’t need a bill of sale or anything. Depending where you live. 100% legal and easy to tell them Take money and move on. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:44:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was it a factory made cut away or something? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:45:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. Lying to federal agents is a crime. Didn’t you learn anything from the Mueller investigation? Martha Stewart? Take money and move on. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:50:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
no, think commemorative edition with fancy engravings, display case... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Was it a factory made cut away or something? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:55:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your option is to be made whole again and that is what they are doing Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I purchased a rifle from gunbroker that a PD "accidentally" sold. I guess the PD realized they screwed up and sold it through a broker and need to get it back. ATF contacts my FFL and they contact me. I am told it was a tax seizure case. I have the court order showing the "Order of Forfeiture" from the original owner. They want me to sign an abandonment form and an agreement to hold harmless. They are treating this as an abandonment to the United States Government. They said they will send an agent with a check on the amount paid. I told them I want to be reimbursed at market value since it's worth more than I paid. Their response is they are making me whole on the amount paid. What are my options? I don't care enough about it to put up a fight but do want to be treated fairly and compensated fairly. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:19:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Just strip it down and give them the receiver since that is all they want back as it is technically the "firearm"
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:41:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no, think commemorative edition with fancy engravings, display case... |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:47:00 PM EDT
[#18]
What would happen if they got it back properly demilled?
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:52:17 PM EDT
[#19]
If they have a lawful claim on the firearm, why would they need to have you sign an abandonment statement, and a hold harmless agreement? Those two things would make me think that the Police department knows they screwed up and wants BATFE to be their intimidation squad and see if they can cover their screw up. As with most negotiations the first offer is low.
I wouldn't want to be a jerk and piss everyone off, but I would consider politely asking them for a copy of the court order wherein the court ordered you to sell the property at below market value. If the police have received the permission to offer to buy it, they can always go back and offer you more money. You might want to ask BATFE why they are involved in a legal firearms sale that went through a dealer. Seller's remorse on the part of the PD isn't really your problem to solve. You are fortunate that you went through an FFL and have the paperwork. Perhaps ask BATFE for more information about the PD, and who is the contact person at the PD that you can talk with. However, as previously noted, there is the possibility that the PD may seek a court order to simply seize the firearm. IF the PD is out of state, it would be interesting to find out whether a court order from one state to seize something (that was legally bought and paid) is enforceable in a different state. ETA: Something I just thought of... perhaps the PD discovered that the firearm is a key piece of evidence in a case unrelated to the tax case. They know that they legally sold the gun, but now realize that they sold the primary piece of evidence to another case, so they want it back, because without it, they don't have the key evidence in another case... Or they want to use the gun as evidence to leverage someone else into cooperation on a different case. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:53:12 PM EDT
[#20]
For something that went up a few hundred bucks in a year? I'd make sure the check includes not just the gun price but any extra shipping, tax, and transfer costs and move on.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:56:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Take the check and give the rifle back. Nothing is worth the extra attention long term. They may tell you it was a tax case, but it literally could be anything else.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 5:03:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Shrug.
Can they legally force you to surrender it, or are they just being dicks? Lawyer should be helpful here if you feel strongly about it. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 5:04:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Help me make sure I understand: You bought a rifle off of GunBroker from a Police Department that now tells you they made a mistake and would appreciate your help in making it right, and you want to make sure you profit as much as possible off the mistake. Is that correct? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 5:06:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so you buy guns to make a profit?  |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 5:15:27 PM EDT
[#25]
If you sell the gun now, after being notified that BATFE/the PD wants it back, you might open up an entire new can of worms about destroying or hiding evidence..that wouldn't be anything I would want to mess with.
While I don't mind being a pain in the ass to government, I also try to look at things from a cost effectiveness point. I think that even if the firearms is worth more than you paid, in the long run the cost of screwing around with BATFE/or some other agency, having to go to court, or risking having the PD seek a court order for seizure that leaves you with nothing at all wouldn't be worth it. I think taking the money is the best bet. However, I would think very carefully before signing any hold harmless agreement, or forfeiture agreement. I would say, I'll take the check and you get the gun, but want to keep all other options open for the future. Keep in mind that while they say it was a tax case, it could just as easily be a gun running, murder, burglary, or drug case. The Supreme Court has specifically said that it is OK for police to lie to citizens, so you really don't have any idea what kind of case the gun is for. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 5:20:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
a little over a year ago Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How long ago did you buy the gun?  Attached File
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Posted: 5/14/2019 5:27:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Irrelevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If the gun had depreciated in value and they offered you what you paid for it and not the lower amount it was now worth, would you take the offer or tell them you want the lower amount? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 5:28:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Ask yourself this question. How much would you be willing to pay to get the ATF out of your ass once they are in your ass?
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Posted: 5/14/2019 5:48:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Count yourelf lucky you're getting a dime. Usually it's just "bend over and smile". |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 5:48:35 PM EDT
[#30]
What kind of gun is it? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 5:58:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not irrelevant since op said it is was about fairness. My question clarifies his understanding of fairness. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 6:01:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why shouldn't he profit off of it the same as if he sold it on the free market right now? They supposedly already received fair market value at the time. After all, they owned it and could sell it for what the market would bear. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 6:08:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just want to know since it was a forfeiture, what are they going to do with it that they want it back? They supposedly already received fair market value at the time. After all, they owned it and could sell it for what the market would bear. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why shouldn't he profit off of it the same as if he sold it on the free market right now? They supposedly already received fair market value at the time. After all, they owned it and could sell it for what the market would bear. You may not even “legally” own the gun. If it was stolen and sold to you too bad so sad. You can just be out the money entirely. If the case is big enough - the atf wants the gun as evidence to hammer the person that stole it You never know. Odds are the story you are being told is only a small piece of the truth |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 6:09:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just want to know since it was a forfeiture, what are they going to do with it that they want it back? They supposedly already received fair market value at the time. After all, they owned it and could sell it for what the market would bear. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 6:10:30 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your option is to be made whole again and that is what they are doing |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 6:11:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The most likely scenario is that someone working for the PD was stealing things then selling them You may not even “legally” own the gun. If it was stolen and sold to you too bad so sad. You can just be out the money entirely. If the case is big enough - the atf wants the gun as evidence to hammer the person that stole it You never know. Odds are the story you are being told is only a small piece of the truth for them back. They demand you give it to them. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 6:13:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I highly doubt that that is the story. He would be in possession of a stolen firearm. They do not ask for them back. They demand you give it to them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The most likely scenario is that someone working for the PD was stealing things then selling them You may not even “legally” own the gun. If it was stolen and sold to you too bad so sad. You can just be out the money entirely. If the case is big enough - the atf wants the gun as evidence to hammer the person that stole it You never know. Odds are the story you are being told is only a small piece of the truth for them back. They demand you give it to them. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 6:15:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Just give them the receiver, for the check, sell the parts
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Posted: 5/14/2019 6:40:08 PM EDT
[#39]
OP screen name is appropriate.....I swear, there are things on this website that you just can't make up!
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Posted: 5/14/2019 6:43:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP screen name is appropriate.....I swear, there are things on this website that you just can't make up! threads like this. Hope you and all yours' are doing good. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 7:02:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go shoot the crap out of it. Turn it in dirty. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 7:07:06 PM EDT
[#42]
It's a shame they don't compensate you for all the time and effort you put into customizing that fine collectible with your Dremel. And how many hours did yo spend tossing it down the driveway to get such an authentic battle worn finish?
Yep, it's a real shame. -Deke |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 10:39:35 PM EDT
[#43]
All of the people who are saying that the OP is looking to profit, that is an assumption. OP is looking for replacement cost.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 10:43:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Ask them to throw in a few Tax stamp fast passes and they got a deal
eta: Beat like whore 
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Posted: 5/14/2019 10:55:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
I purchased a rifle from gunbroker that a PD "accidentally" sold. I guess the PD realized they screwed up and sold it through a broker and need to get it back. ATF contacts my FFL and they contact me. I am told it was a tax seizure case. I have the court order showing the "Order of Forfeiture" from the original owner. They want me to sign an abandonment form and an agreement to hold harmless. They are treating this as an abandonment to the United States Government. They said they will send an agent with a check on the amount paid. I told them I want to be reimbursed at market value since it's worth more than I paid. Their response is they are making me whole on the amount paid. What are my options? I don't care enough about it to put up a fight but do want to be treated fairly and compensated fairly. Eventually my Commander ordered me to give back the equipment and I said I'm getting an attorney. I went on down to base legal for help. A lawyer there asked me if I knew the equipment was classified equipment before purchasing. I told him no, you don't even get to look at the lot your bidding on. He told me then the equipment is mine and I can agree to sell it back to them or not. DFMO rejected my counter offer and after some time I received a fax from the General in charge of CONUS DRMO apologizing for the treatment I received and telling me they had taken care of the problem by declassifying the equipment properly. Consult a lawyer before you do anything. Some lawyers have a real issue with the government trying to strongarm people. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 10:56:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so if you bought 1oz of gold in 2008 for $850 and they want you to surrender it now for $850 when it's worth $1300, there's nothing you can do about it? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 11:12:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a shame they don't compensate you for all the time and effort you put into customizing that fine collectible with your Dremel. And how many hours did yo spend tossing it down the driveway to get such an authentic battle worn finish? Yep, it's a real shame. -Deke |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 11:38:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Sell it to a third party FTF.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 11:58:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Step away for a few hours and come back to an entertaining thread. I'll keep everyone posted. They don't seem in a rush to get it.
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Posted: 5/15/2019 11:12:06 AM EDT
[#50]
What happened OP?
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