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Posted: 11/18/2003 6:46:23 AM EDT
Okay, here's the situation. I'm in New Jersey (Stop laughing! lol) and I want to do an out of state transfer. The gentleman who has the rifle in questiuon lives in MA. My local FFL told me that they won't send their FFL to a private person, that the destination needs to have a store front, essentially that it needs to be a business. I called the other local shop and they made the same claim! This is all new to me and I think they're making it up! Anyone have any thoughts on this? Please, constructive posts please since this is really ticking me off.

Thanks.

hep
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:18:09 AM EDT
I guess they don't want to send their FFL to a non-FFL out of fear they will use it to counterfiet a FFL for evil purposes.

This is certainly their "policy" as it is certainly not the law.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:34:38 AM EDT
That's 100% NORMAL for a FFL not to want to send a copy of it to an INDIVIDUAL. What does the individual need the copy of the FFL for??? It certainly isn't a law, rule or regulation that he needs to have one sent ot him to ship anything. ALL that he (the shipping individual) has to do is to verify that he's sending TO a FFL. The best way is for him to use the FFL eZ check on the ATF.GOV web site. That's what my FFL uses and what I use in all my transactions with individuals.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:50:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jtb33:
That's 100% NORMAL for a FFL not to want to send a copy of it to an INDIVIDUAL. What does the individual need the copy of the FFL for??? It certainly isn't a law, rule or regulation that he needs to have one sent ot him to ship anything. ALL that he (the shipping individual) has to do is to verify that he's sending TO a FFL. The best way is for him to use the FFL eZ check on the ATF.GOV web site. That's what my FFL uses and what I use in all my transactions with individuals.



Er. Have you ever tried to ship a gun UPS without a copy of the receiver's FFL? It certainly wouldn't fly at any UPS Customer Counter I've seen.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:15:17 AM EDT
The seller holds a C&R in MA (type 3 license with the ATF). I believe he wants an FFL copy for his files to keep it all legal.

Aside from that, it seems that most of the people I've dealt with won't ship unless they have that proof mailed to them. I've used the ez check myself, but still, it seems that many are caught in this hyper-protective state.

If a seller doesn't want to ship without the proof, what can you do? You can explain the law to them all you want, but they can just say "not until I get the proof on paper"

So with that said, I want to know if my FFL is following the law. They have an obligation to follow the law, not to add to it for some misplaced fear. Especially if the seller is registered with the ATF.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:16:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 8:17:36 AM EDT by hepcat85]



Er. Have you ever tried to ship a gun UPS without a copy of the receiver's FFL? It certainly wouldn't fly at any UPS Customer Counter I've seen.



That's why I ship through Airborne Express or FedEx. UPS's thoughts on the 2nd Amendment are well known.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 11:27:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hepcat85:
The seller holds a C&R in MA (type 3 license with the ATF). I believe he wants an FFL copy for his files to keep it all legal.

Aside from that, it seems that most of the people I've dealt with won't ship unless they have that proof mailed to them. I've used the ez check myself, but still, it seems that many are caught in this hyper-protective state.

If a seller doesn't want to ship without the proof, what can you do? You can explain the law to them all you want, but they can just say "not until I get the proof on paper"

So with that said, I want to know if my FFL is following the law. They have an obligation to follow the law, not to add to it for some misplaced fear. Especially if the seller is registered with the ATF.



Is the rifle a C&R? If it is, then the shipment is a transfer between licensees and the sender is legally required to have a certified copy of the receiving FFL's license. If the rifle is not C&R, then the seller is acting as an individual and does not have to have a copy of the FFL.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 11:58:33 AM EDT
I understand that EOD, you understand that, but the local dealer doesn't. As far as I'm able to determine, the local shop has layered on more red tape out of fear. On one hand, I can understand that, given the mania in NJ. BUT, they were inflexible on these self created rules. I went to another dealer who said that as long as the seller has a FFL of some kind, which a C&R is (Type 3 license) AND that he faxes it to them and they can verify it, they will mail out the FFL to him for a transfer. So perhaps this will work out...I'll find out Friday.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:09:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 12:10:39 PM EDT by hepcat85]
Here's an update. I just got off the phone with the ATF. They informed me that there is no such requirement and it must be a store policy.



What's next? The seller needs to fly in and hand deliver the firearm? @#$#!$%$^%$!#

Thanks for all the feed back gents.

hep
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 2:57:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 3:00:00 PM EDT by David_Hineline]
A private individual has no reason to ask for a copy of an FFL dealer's license period end of story.

Like someone mentioned if he's a C+R collector and is selling a C+R qualified rifle I would send my FFL to them, but not for a non C+R rifle.

UPS has no business asking to see a copy of a receiving dealer's license. If you are sending the firearm to a FFL dealer or manuf. that is all that is required by law.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:01:14 PM EDT
I just shipped a rifle today using UPS. The buyers dealer had no problem sending me a copy of his ffl.(I know that by law, I am not required to have a copy of his ffl)
I took it to the UPS counter and handed the box to the guy behind the counter. No questions asked.
It must be my honest face.
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