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Posted: 5/6/2003 6:13:51 PM EDT
Well, I have been hanging out over at AK-47.net to learn the world of AKs... I bought a SAR-1 which will be my shooter AK but I want to either build a dummy AKMs or I wanted to find a way to build one such that I can still have all the evil features... I know I am building an AR-15 pistol by killing the gas system so why not do the same with the AKM series.... Following is what I posted over at AK-47.net --------------------------------------------- OK guys, I stole the following from: [url]http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/theak47.htm[/url] It's a good looking page... check it out!
The AK47 is a gas-operated weapon, using a rotating bolt inside of a bolt carrier. The gas tube containing a loose-fitting gas piston, is positioned directly over the top of the barrel. When the weapon is fired, some of the propellant gases are bled off through a gas port drilled through the top of the barrel. The gas drives the gas piston rearward, through the gas block, emerging over the top of the chamber, where the back end of the piston impacts against the bolt carrier. The bolt, which is contained within the bolt carrier, has a lug on its side which mates to a groove milled in the carrier. As the carrier is forced back, it moves this slot over the lug, in turn, causing the bolt to rotate. This rotation and reward movement causes the bolt to unlock, disingaging its lugs from matching slots machined into the rear of the chamber. This rearward action of the bolt carrier also extracts the spent case, cocks the hammer and strips a fresh round from the magazine, chambering it, on its return journey forward into battery. As the carrier and bolt are driven back they compress a recoil or return spring. At the end of its rearward travel, the carrier and bolt are driven forward, now under spring pressure, stripping a new round from the magazine and chambering it. The carrier and its corresponding machined grooves, cause the bolt to rotate and lock into the matching recesses machined into the chamber end of the barrel. The hammer is now cocked and the weapon is ready to fire. If immediate firing is not needed or anticipated, the safety, which is on the right side of the receiver, can be raised into its uppermost position, making the weapon safe. In additon to acting as the safety, this lever also doubles as a dustcover, keeeping dirt and debris out of the weapon's action.
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How could someone make an AK varient Non-SemiAuto when we look at the basic system as described in the paragraph above? Secondly, how can this be done in a way that it could be reversed later? Following is a cut away view... [img]http://aster.iespana.es/aster/fotosdentro/ak47pordentro1.jpg[/img] [url]http://aster.iespana.es/aster/fotosdentro/interiorak47.htm[/url] The question really comes down to, how can we stop the gas system from working? Now my NEWBEE status with AKs comes through, but can the Gas piston be removed from the bolt carrier? [img]http://www.sksman.com/images/AK74bltngaspis.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.sksman.com/parts/parts3.html[/url] And if we did, I know we would need something to replace it for the recoil spring assembly to re-close the system and to keep the system aligned properly. I can't help but wonder just how much gas would be blowing back into the action and the shooter's face if the piston wasn't there. In general, I can't see an easy way to make this work? Now, another way that I think would work is by buying a new AK Gas Chamber and closing up the gas hole in it by welding it shut! [img]http://www.sksman.com/images/gtubed.gif[/img] [url]http://www.sksman.com/parts/parts2.html[/url] Then, assemble my parts kit with this welded closed Gas Chamber. This will prevent the gas from ever getting to the piston making the rifle a charging handle operated BOLT-ACTION! If the crime bill dies I could simply remove this non-functional gas chamber and replace it with the functional unit that came with the parts kit... This last option looks like the best way that I can come up with to make an AK-47 non-semiautomatic, or it's the best non-perminant method that I have found yet even though this is in fact a perminant change BUT the piece I am modifying wouldn't be too difficult to replace later.... So WHATCHA ALL THINK? to do this I simply buy an AK Gas Chamber and weld that puppy closed and add it to my PMKMS parts kit (saving the original part) and then assemble my parts kit on a new OOW receiver! I can have my threaded muzzle, bayonet lug, and underfolder plus my detachable magazines but I have lost my Semi-Automatic fire option.... If the crime bill dies, then I simply swap the parts and have an PMKMS the way it was supposed to be... well, except for the full auto :( I think this should work and I would argue with the ATF anyday that my rifle built in this way is NOT a semiautomatic so the crime bill does not apply! ----------------------------------------------- So, what do you all think... sound reasonable? I seem to have scared the guys over ar AK-47.net as I am not getting any replies? I know you guys will share some grief!
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 6:44:31 PM EDT
How bout this? Drill and tap the opening in the gas block for a set-screw. Fill the bore in the gas block with the set-screw - no more semi auto. If/when the ban sunsets, you go in there with a hex key and take out the set-screw - voila' instant semi auto. You might actually have to silver solder or pin the set-screw in place to satisfy ATF and cover your butt, but it can always be drilled out EASILY later.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 3:50:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 3:52:32 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Originally Posted By Circuits: How bout this? Drill and tap the opening in the gas block for a set-screw. Fill the bore in the gas block with the set-screw - no more semi auto.
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Well, with the AK-47, or AKMs in my case, I don't think it will be possible to do that.... I understand the gas chamber, as shown above, is held on by two pins and that it is press fit into place. This piece is fairly cheap so I will just buy a spare and use the spare what will be welded shut.... Like you said, if the crime bill dies, then I will swap the parts.... I had one person warn me against keeping the replacement part (or original part in my case) handy, but I argue that this BOLT-ACTION AK isn't going to be my only AK and I have two legitimate uses for this piece... ONE... the crime bill could die, TWO... the piece would work on my post-ban compliant semi-auto SAR-1. Oh well, I am still waiting to get the parts kit and from there I need to get the necessary US Parts count plus find a gunsmith that agrees with my logic and is willing to help me put her together! As I tried to say, I just want an AK Underfolder and I thought about building it as a dummy gun but this will cost just a little more than a dummy gun PLUS I could use it as a bolt action (Legal for hunting here in PA as we can't uses semiautos to hunt) and later convert it to semiauto AKMS if the crime bill dies! Thanks for the advise!
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 4:44:38 AM EDT
As I tried to say, I just want an AK Underfolder and I thought about building it as a dummy gun but this will cost just a little more than a dummy gun PLUS I could use it as a bolt action (Legal for hunting here in PA as we can't uses semiautos to hunt) and later convert it to semiauto AKMS if the crime bill dies!
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Just a word of warning; if you walk into the woods during deer season with your invisibly neutered AK and are seen by a game warden, expect to finish the day with at very least a citation, and possibly in jail. Most of the deputy game wardens are out there just itching for a way to write citations or make an arrest. You'll be explaining your single shot AK to a judge. Doesn't seem worth the aggrevation.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:01:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 5:06:25 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
DavidC, I have been there as I had used a Bushmaster for hunting groundhogs for a year or two... My upper was a 26-inch V-match and I neutered it by removing the gas tube and plugging the front sight base with a set screw like Circuits suggested.... I was stopped ONCE by a game warden and he wanted to give me hell... I had to teach him about AR-15s and then I showed him that it didn't fire as a semiautomatic. He was fine with it and let me continue hunting. Now, I am doing the same thing with an AR-15 PISTOL in 300 Whipser except my pistol project is being built by Kurt and it doesn't have the barrel drilled for a gas port and it will have NO forward sight or gas block! This will be much easier to show a game warden if tey want to talk guns. I WILL be using this pistol this fall for deer! As for the AKMs, I may or may not use it to hunt. The PA Game commision's rules are that a rifle must be perminantly in a non-semiaouto configuration. With my Bushmaster V-match upper, you could argue that this was less than perminant and that was why I stopped using it... well, that and I have a 243 Rem 700 PSS clone that shoots MUCH BETTER (about 0.5 MOA with 55gr Nosler BTs at 4000 fps). With the 300 Whipser pistol and the AK, these changes are perminant unless you replace parts or do some serious work! The game commision couldn't charge me regardless of how the gun looks as "It's Legal" to the letter of the law! Now, if I got a prick of a warden, I guess I may need to take them to the range and shoot the weapon for them but it would be worth it to me!
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:14:25 AM EDT
Actually, they can charge you for anything they want. Whether they can convict you is another story. At least here in SE PA, there are a whole lot of deputy game wardens who are LEO-wanna-be's. I've seen them write citations for all sorts of stupid BS, and talked to a bunch of people who had to make the trip back to the local justice to get the citation tossed, usually giving up a day of work to do so. Personally I got written up for "Having a loaded gun in the car during hunting season" after the DGW couldn't find anything else to cite me for when I packed a deer out of the woods after 30 minutes after I went in (not every hunting trip takes hours). I pointed out to the moron that I had a CCW, and he just said that didn't matter, wrote the citation and forced me to have to make a 70 mile drive to go to court to fight it. Court session took about 30 seconds. "CCW?" "Yes" "Dismissed" Hopefully in your part of the state there are fewer buttheads working part-time for the game commission.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:18:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 9:23:46 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Yea. I am not disagreeing as I live in the Valley Forge area myself... Just the same, it is legal if I choose to do it! Also, I have a fully functional AKM, I just want something that looks like this... [img]http://svalur.freewebtools.com/images/akm-47-w-accys.jpg[/img] The only way I can do it is to make a dummy or make it non-semi! Oh yea, I just found this great cut away of an AKM [img]http://world.guns.ru/assault/akm_cut.jpg[/img]
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