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Posted: 6/15/2002 10:33:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2002 11:08:14 PM EDT by 1911greg]
I was reading a topic on transporting your long gun and had a question for you guys i have a double barrel shotgun that I keep under the seat of my truck (unloaded)and it is accesable to me I also keep a box of shells in the glove box and in my how to own a gun and stay out of jail it says longguns don't fall under the concealed gun law so you can keep them concealed as long as they are unloaded so is what I am doing legal?
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 10:54:01 PM EDT
You must have made some typos. I dont know of any state that would require a gun to be loaded in order for it to be legal. Can you take the gun out while you are driving? If you can, it is accessible...Most states require the firearm to be unloaded in a LOCKED trunk or a LOCKED case if it HAS to be in the passenger compartment. In Minnesota, if you don't have a carry license, you can only transport to go hunting or to the range. I wouldnt "think" that CA law is any more lenient.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:31:27 PM EDT
anyone?
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:04:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1911greg: anyone?
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Me. Do some homework, as I just answered this about a month ago. Check the PRK DOJ page and read the laws. You can also find a summary of Kaliban regulations on the NRA web page. I think (operative word here is "think") that if the ammo is in the glove box and the gun under the seat, you might be OK. Only question may be whether a concealed gun is worse than one that's in open sight on the back seat or in a rack. Note that there's a lot of "mights" and "maybes" in the answer. I'm not sure about 'how to own a gun and stay out of jail'...best way to avoid the can is to read the law yourself and if you have any questions, to ask a legal professional. That's your attorney, not a cop, and certainly not me. -hanko
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 6:22:43 AM EDT
I also THINK it's legal to carry an unloaded, non-AW rifle under your seat and have ammo in the glove box in California. Nothing in the letter of the STATE law (or in the municipal codes of LA, SF, or San Diego) prohibit carrying a rifle and ammo in that manner, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. If you drive through the state that way and get pulled over by a cop I advise you to keep both hands visible, be extremely polite, and tell him or her about the rifle IMMEDIATELY. Caliban law is so complex, confusing, and self-contradictory that the chances of a random cop being aware that such an arrangement is legal are slim to none. A lot of cops here more or less make things up as they go. Most Cali cops would probably act like you are technically breaking the law but they are doing you a big favor and letting you slide. That's if they like you. Some of them will make you put the rifle or the ammo in the trunk because it IS illegal to carry a handgun or AW that way and they aren't aware of the distinction. And a few of them are guaranteed to be total jerks, seizing your rifle and ammo and possibly arresting you. This is especially true if you have out-of-state plates on your car. IOW just because it's legal doesn't mean it's wise. Frankly when I have to drive to places I consider dangerous (e.g. Los Angeles) I pack my 1911 pistol with Hydra-Shoks, put it in a knapsack or fanny pack, and keep that sitting on the passenger seat next to me. At age 44 it's a lot easier to talk your way out of police hassles than at age 24.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 3:19:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 3:34:21 PM EDT by eje]
1911greg, You can transport an unloaded shotgun in your truck. I also think it's o.k. to have a box of shells in the glove box at the same time. Here is the definition of "loaded" from Penal Code 12031(g): "A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded...when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm...." In [u]People v. Clark[/u] (1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147, the court of appeal in San Diego discussed PC 12031(g) and said that a single-shot shotgun with "three shells located in a covered compartment at the rear of the shotgun's stock" was [u]not[/u] loaded within the meaning of that section. (There was no shell in the chamber.) Although this was not the technical holding of the case, it's the best case I know of that discusses PC 12031(g). You can get the opinion at www.findlaw.com. I'm not sure that I would come right out and tell a cop that pulled me over that I had the shotgun in the vehicle. If you do, the stop is definitely going to get more complicated. If the cop sees the shotgun, the stop is going to get complicated anyway, but why volunteer the information if there's a chance the cop isn't going to see it? What I would do is put the shotgun in some type of bag or case that doesn't look like it was made for a gun, and if any questions come up, just politely decline to answer. I would also keep my registration and proof of insurance in some type of clip-on visor pouch, away from the glove compartment where you keep the box of shells so you don't have to open it if you are pulled over. There's an interesting case from the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals on whether a cop can inquire about guns in the vehicle and other vehicle search issues: U.S. v. Holt (D.C. No. 99-CR-77-B). You can download it from the 10th Circuit web page. If you're carrying a gun under your seat it's worth a read. Hope this helps, Ed
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