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Posted: 4/15/2002 6:56:23 PM EDT
So 1 year and 5 months after I sent in my registration for my Eagle Arms pre-ban here in CA, I get a letter from the DOJ stating that they received the initial form I downloaded from the internet, but never received the real form or the $20. It said that my registration is now considered abandoned and makes mention of turning the gun in. I have a copy of the form I filled out, but I don't have a copy of the money order. I do have the original receipt for the rifle from when it was purchased almost 10 years ago. What should I do? The letter doesn't say I can't register the gun and says to call the number with any questions. My point is that I've owned the gun before the ban, and that I intended to register it (as demonstrated by the fact that they got the first copy of the registration form). It's not my fault the real form and the money was lost. Any help or advice is appreciated.
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 6:58:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/15/2002 6:59:18 PM EDT by 1911greg]
And why did you decide too register your rifle??????? I think you should sell it out of state or get the shovel out and do some digging.
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 7:08:32 PM EDT
Don Wrote; It's not my fault the real form and the money was lost. I agree, but in the socialist police state of Kali, that probably won't cut it. The best legal advice I could give you is to seek legal advice from a competent attorney, preferably one who is a gunowner. Seriously, Have you thought of seeking asylum in another state? The best thing that happened to many is seeing Kalifornia in their rear view mirror, according to my neighbor who is a transplant.
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 7:15:21 PM EDT
Seeing as how I like shooting my rifle and the closest range is a public range, the best thing for me to do was to register it. This way I'd be able to be open about having it. Some people are going to say move out of state or sell it out of state. Unless someone's going to offer me a well-paying job in a "gun-friendly" state and move my entire family out there with me, that isn't a real option. And I don't want to sell it to someone out of state, and I shouldn't have to. I attempted to register it legally, and it's not my fault someone didn't do their job properly. While it's true that had I not registered it all the state wouldn't know about, but that would make me more of a felon than I may already be. Besides, I'm not going to sneak around with my AR like some 14 year old kid with a porno magazine, trying to keep it hidden from his parents. I bought it legally, it's my property, and I work for the 3rd largest law firm in the US. F*ck the state, we'll take them on!
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 7:20:43 PM EDT
I'm sorry to hear that but read below. 978.32 Processing Times (a) The time standards for processing assault weapon registration applications are as follows: (1) Within 30 days after the date of receipt of an application, the Department shall either inform the applicant, in writing, that the application is complete and accepted for processing, or return the application as deficient and specify what information is required. (2) Within 75 days after the date of receipt of a completed application, the Department shall complete the processing of the application. (b) If the Department fails to meet its time standards for processing an assault weapon registration application, the applicant, within 30 days from the date of the notice of the final decision granting or denying the registration, may apply in writing for a full reimbursement of any and all registration fees. The Department shall respond within 10 days of receipt of a request for reimbursement. If the reimbursement request is denied, the applicant may appeal the denial, in writing, directly to the Attorney General. The appeal must be filed within 30 days of the date the applicant was notified of the reimbursement denial and shall set forth a concise statement of facts and chronology of events regarding the application. Following any investigation of the matter which the Attorney General deems appropriate, and within 30 days from the date of receipt of the appeal, a decision shall be issued. The appeal shall be decided in the applicant's favor if the Department exceeds the maximum time period for the processing of the application and the Department has failed to establish good cause for exceeding this time period. Information regarding this appeal process shall be included with all assault weapon registration application forms. NOTE: Authority cited: Sections 15376 and 15378, Government Code. Reference: Sections 15376 and 15378, Government Code. I copied it from [url]http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/regs/sb23.htm[/url] You have tough decision to make. As of now, you are committing a felony. 1) Take it to the police station and surrender your gun for disposal. Call them first and make an appointment! Don't walk in there with AR15 without letting them know first, they'll kill you on the spot. 2) Sell it to someone out of state. 3) Sell it to a gun dealer in your area who possess assault weapon permit. 4) Move the gun from the state and have your out-of-state friend, or relative hold on to it. If you can afford it, you can even rent a storage place out of state (i.e. Nevada, Arizona) and keep the AR15 there.
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 7:43:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LngBchAR15: I'm sorry to hear that but read below. 978.32 Processing Times (a) The time standards for processing assault weapon registration applications are as follows: (1) Within 30 days after the date of receipt of an application, the Department shall either inform the applicant, in writing, that the application is complete and accepted for processing, or return the application as deficient and specify what information is required. (2) Within 75 days after the date of receipt of a completed application, the Department shall complete the processing of the application. This section right here is what may get the state. They obviously received the first application I sent in, so they should have informed me they didn't get the complete application. They did not, and waited almost a year and half to tell me that. They did not fulfill their end of the obligation.
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 8:17:10 PM EDT
I smell [red]Entrapment[/red] If you do everything in your power to comply with a law and they force you to do something illegal then that’s considered entrapment. There are rules about determining entrapment, It sounds like to me that this would qualify but I need some help here; Dave_G or Troy a little help please [:D]. - Sulaco
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 8:24:23 PM EDT
You can send your gun to me over here in Michigan! I'll buy it off of you for a dollar, you can have it sent to my local FFL holder (a reputable gun shop owner) and then it will be here when you come to your senses and LEAVE KALIFORNIA! I will take good care of it... promise!
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 8:46:54 PM EDT
Sure, and we'll do it all over the phone, right? Gentleman's agreement? You sound like you work for the CA DOJ!
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 9:54:33 PM EDT
DirtyDon, If you are in the Orange County/San bernardino area, you might try Bruce Colodny, [url]http://www.gunlaw.com/[/url]. Tell him your story. You might be able to get them to accept a replacement registration form and fee, assuming they never sent you notification that your registration was deficient in some form as required by law. It might costs you a few hundred dollars, but it's better than losing your rifle. By the way, is the rifle in question finished in a somewhat glossy black, almost crinkle-coat paint?
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 10:07:29 PM EDT
DirtyDon, I say make a print out of section 978.32 and take it to your local District Attorneys Office and have them take a look at. What the Department of Justice is trying to do is railroad you into the wall and take your AR15 away from you. They should have contacted you if there were any problems. The only problem that I see is that they never actually received a process able application so section 978.32 may not apply to you, however they still should have done something before issuing to you a relinquishing notice. The DA will be the one in charge of ordering the confiscation of your rifle, so he would be the best person to get a hold of ASAP. I wouldn’t talk about Entrapment at first, let him look at it and give you his or her opinion about it first, but defiantly mention it if the DA doesn’t. Basic definition of Entrapment; Entrapment occurs when a government entity forces a suspect into a position where they do something illegal, however under normal circumstances that person would not have done so. In your case, you tried to register a rifle legally however the agency did not contact you in time enough for you to properly register the weapon. You made a legal attempt to do the right thing, however they never contacted you that they needed additional information and thus causing your time allotment to expire, so now you must relinquish the weapon. That sounds like entrapment if you ask me. Well good luck and let us know how it works out. - Sulaco
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 10:14:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DirtyDon: So 1 year and 5 months after I sent in my registration for my Eagle Arms pre-ban here in CA, I get a letter from the DOJ stating that they received the initial form I downloaded from the internet, but never received the real form or the $20. It said that my registration is now considered abandoned and makes mention of turning the gun in. I have a copy of the form I filled out, but I don't have a copy of the money order. I do have the original receipt for the rifle from when it was purchased almost 10 years ago. What should I do? The letter doesn't say I can't register the gun and says to call the number with any questions. My point is that I've owned the gun before the ban, and that I intended to register it (as demonstrated by the fact that they got the first copy of the registration form). It's not my fault the real form and the money was lost. Any help or advice is appreciated.
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Hey Don, I recently moved out of California, but only because of work not the gun legislation. Moving is not an option most of the time. You register your guns because it is the law, period. You can get caught with you pants down if you don't walk the line sometimes. Having said that this sounds alot like in '89 when they made all SKS and HK 91 boys register their weapons, then they pushed the date another six months or something and more registered. Low and behold they changed their mind and came and got near 14,000 guns that had registered after the initial date. Sounds like they took advantage of the situation, you're probably not the only one. I registered everything I knew I would leave in California some I sent to My folks house in Oregon, which was good as I live here now. I think they are going to bone you! I would find a place to store it in Nevada. It would be worth it. Fight for your right, but if it looks bad ship it to Nevada or some other state where you have family. Good Luck and God bless. Kentlik
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 10:37:17 PM EDT
Don, For the record, ignore sulaco. His advice would likely cost you your rifle at the minimum and some money, and maybe some time, too. His advice was bad...WAY BAD.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 5:38:20 AM EDT
Thanks for all of the information, guys. I'm going to have one of the attorneys at work call the DOJ for me this morning, and we'll see how it goes. I feel that a lot of this rests on my intent, which obviously was to register it. If it gets to the point where I've lost the battle then I'll ship it out to a friend of mine in NC. Unfortunately, I don't have any family on another state.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 5:50:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2002 5:51:50 AM EDT by maxell27]
Dirtydon, Your situation sucks. Your best bet is to sell it to someone out of state. I was a California resident, but I soon tired of all the BS gun laws and left. Moving is not an option for you and having your weapon at a friends can be a legal problem. I am sure you can make at least 1200 bucks for it and don't have to worry about the CA DOJ looking for this rifle. My family and freedom are worth more to me than a few month in jail for my AR15. If you are interested I am willing to trade my M1A rifle for your preban Eagle Arms. M1A are still legal and I'll put on the muzzle break to keep it legal. LMK if your interested. [marines] Max
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 6:07:27 AM EDT
Max... That sounds pretty good. I'll let you know. I did want to get an M1A at some point, so that may be an option. See down below for a description of my rifle. Upon reviewing all of the paperwork I have, I received the real registration form on 26 JAN 2001, which was after the official end of registration for AR's. The form that I had downloaded and sent in was a "placeholder", but they never specified how long the placeholder was good for. I hope that if I resubmit the form (this time sent registered, return-receipt) I should be OK. In case anyone's interested, my EA is a collapsible stock, with a Bushmaster M4gery flat-top upper. I have an TA01NSN ACOG, Knight's RAS, Harris bipod, and Surefire M961 on it. In the 9 years I had it I've shot it maybe 15 times, so I guess that makes me a menace with it. And Dave, it's not shiny or crinkle-coated. Man, all of this is starting to give me an ulcer...
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 8:36:50 AM EDT
Good news! I called DOJ, and they said they'll send me another registration form and they'll match it up with the copy they already have on file. They said I'll have to send them another $20 (which is no big deal), but that everything will be nice and legal. There's no problem. There's a tremendous weight off of my shoulders now, and I'll be able to legally keep my gun. I appreciate everyone's support on this. If anyone's interested, I'll be at Angeles Range this Wednesday night (4/17). Look for the guy with the above described gun!
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 9:57:50 AM EDT
That's great news. Maybe if you guys can get Gray Davis out of there some of those laws could be repealed.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 10:22:59 AM EDT
This is why I kept a photocopy of my check (with a backup carbon-copy of check in my checkbook), a copy of my reg paperwork filing, and mailed my paperwork US Postal tracked certified/registered proof of mailing, (can't remember which) with delivery confirmation, Priority Mail. If I'd had time, I would have had everything notarized too, and had an attorney or notary mail it, and write an attestation letter that he/she mailed relevant documents. Just so there were no cluster-f*cks. Don't try to save a few bucks in these situations: the postage, etc. was worth it for peace of mind. Would have jumped all over things if delivery failed. I had until 1/23/01 to reg the ARs (due to Kasler decision) but since I also had Mini-14 and 2 FALs, I had to get the paperwork in by 12/31/00. There were questions about how to properly fill out the form (I had questions about caliber/ barrel length variations for various lowers). I did not want a rejection (and refusal of refiling) over disagreements about rifle configuration data; I verified that indeed if a "best-efforts" filing were made, that would comply with deadline: I would be called/written for clarification of confusing items and as long as I responded within reasonable time, I'd be OK. This is why I would NEVER use the fax reg system they'd set up; there's really no verification that they've gotten it: paper could run out, fax memory gets cleared, etc. For legal stuff, the "paperless future" will be pretty much a myth.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 3:57:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DirtyDon: Good news! I called DOJ, and they said they'll send me another registration form and they'll match it up with the copy they already have on file. They said I'll have to send them another $20 (which is no big deal), but that everything will be nice and legal. There's no problem. There's a tremendous weight off of my shoulders now, and I'll be able to legally keep my gun. I appreciate everyone's support on this. If anyone's interested, I'll be at Angeles Range this Wednesday night (4/17). Look for the guy with the above described gun!
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That is one of the many things I miss about California, Angeles Forest range. Now that is a big nice cheap range and no bull from the people around you. Here in Oregon the only ranges I have found are small expensive and and well that's enough. Oh or private. Keep all your paper work! Kentlik
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